Which Religion makes the most sense II [Archive]

Rain-chan

11-24-2007, 09:47 PM

My point in telling the story of Atheism being a lazy belief is that it doesn't seem to require much thought beyond "I don't believe in God. I'm an Atheist." It seems to be the go to belief for people who don't want to believe in God, even though there are several more, much better thought out philosophies on the idea of whether or not God exists. At least, that's my opinion. :/

That's really not the way to look at it, I don't think... -.-; ... yes, there are people out who don't think beyond "I don't believe in God. I'm an Atheist" but that doesn't make them lazy nor ignorant. Maybe to them religion is not the way to go, maybe they prefer science or whatever to explain their existance and purpose. It is their choice if they don't choose to believe in God. And you were right, Atheism is not a belief, it's just who some people are (a catagory of people if you like), it's similar gender and ethnics, it's not really fair to say that someone from a different ethnic group is 'lazy' because they don't think about some things the way you do.

Pansori

11-24-2007, 11:09 PM

No, let me clarify: my point was that it seems like people decide they don't believe in God and immediately assume they must be or are atheist, even though they know very little (if anything) about it. The poster who brought up Atheism wasn't even sure if it was a religion, while I've heard several people claim to be atheists, but their views are more agnostic.
The fact that someone is quick to jump to atheism without researching other thoughts or philosophies is, imo, very lazy.
When I made the comment about what people said, that is what I often hear. Flip through the other religion debates, and that's what a lot of people, even on this board, say. Very few have expanded on their views of Atheism. These short, contrite answers leads me to believe that they haven't taken the time out to research other ideas, much less their own atheistic views.

I think I get frustrated because there are so many nontheistic views beyond Atheism, and yet people are so quick to claim their atheists without knowing what other ideas are out there.

I don't believe atheists as a whole are lazy, but I do believe it has become a quick, cop out answer for many.

Anyway, I myself lean towards Buddhism, which is an Atheistic religion. My mother was raised a Buddhist, and she is what I believe to be a true atheist. She absolutely, beyond any doubt, does not believe in God in anyway, shape or form. So I guess, in a way, atheists have a special place in my heart. :D

yep

11-24-2007, 11:11 PM

i agree with rain, its not about effort, just beleif (or not). whatever an individuals faith belongs to is what they should follow, and if they dont agree with it then thats not their religion. of coarse there are things in most religions that can not be explained or proven but thats part of what classifies religion. many are made up of philosophies and its those philosophies that the people follow.

nope

11-24-2007, 11:19 PM

i would like to see what satanism is all about. sounds like an interesting religion, i might buy a satanist bible some time soon, among other random books....

Tensa Zangetsu

11-24-2007, 11:35 PM

I don't understand why people would beleive in a religion. I see the cultures and traditions behind it and I don't care either way, but the concept of "god" is just plain ridiculous!! a powerful being that made the universe? No, what I believe is that there is some kind of logical force that triggered matter to start condensing until the big bang occured and that is what started the universe. The rest is already scientifically proven. So in short - the force that created the big bang is my god....

Vernedead

11-25-2007, 08:50 AM

No, what I believe is that there is some kind of logical force that triggered matter to start condensing until the big bang occured and that is what started the universe.

You do realise that this belief of yours is no different from a casual religion?

Deus.Bel

11-29-2007, 02:35 AM

what I believe is that there is some kind of logical force that triggered matter to start condensing until the big bang occured and that is what started the universe.
and what would this "logical force" be? before anything existed, even logic could not exist. logic and science are the "glue" that holds together the result of an action. before anything happened logic couldn't exist. therefore this logical force, as you say, triggering everything is the same thing that all religions say.
The rest is already scientifically proven. So in short - the force that created the big bang is my god....
so, god is your god?

nope

11-29-2007, 03:39 AM

this argument is Sisyphean, proving/disproving religion is impossible. the big bang theory, while it is a logical solution is not 100% on how or why it happened. the best thing to do with a religion instead of following the norm or populous find a religion that suits you and your ideals. people should stop asking which religion or theory is right and keep an open mind to all possibilities.

Rain-chan

11-29-2007, 09:08 PM

i agree with rain, its not about effort, just beleif (or not). whatever an individuals faith belongs to is what they should follow, and if they dont agree with it then thats not their religion.

Was that me :confused:... ^^;
If it was then I would just like to clearify that I meant was similar to what nope said... you have to keep an open mind about what each religion is really about and make your own choice on the matter. At the same time you have to acknowledge that other people had made their choices and have their reasons.
But once you do find something you believe it make sense or you want to believe in then at the same time you have to come in term with that you have to make an effort to follow that belief (or find out more about it). Like I said in the previous thread, you don't go join a religion just for the reward it offers... If you want reward in life then you have to put in the sencerity and action towards it... you can't get something out of nothing, and that's pretty standard in any religion... (at least I hope^^; )

Keira Maboroshi

12-03-2007, 12:47 AM

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any god. I don't believe in souls. I don't believe in an afterlife. Etc. I could be wrong, I don't believe so, I acknowledge that I could though, I do not criticize(sp?) religion, but I wish people wouldn't get so worked up over it, really, people have been killed over it. I think atheism makes the most sense, but obviously some people disagree, and I accept that.

Useless

12-03-2007, 01:15 AM

I find that agnosticism makes the most sense. I think so since it doesn't disregard any opinion. It states that a God could exist, but there is no way to prove it. However, this is my opinion and the only ones to agree with me would be other agnostics. You won't practice a religion if you don't think it makes sense. There isn't really an answer to this question since it is all personal preference.

yep

12-03-2007, 01:24 AM

yeah, agnostics are kinda on the sideline, not in a bad way. i believe that its usually what ever religion you were raised with, although this is false in many cases. all this is personal belief and opinion, which everyone has a different view on.

Vernedead

12-03-2007, 07:18 AM

I find that agnosticism makes the most sense.

I heard someone once say: "An agnostic is an atheist who can't tell why."

Pansori

12-03-2007, 08:57 PM

I'd rather someone claim to be agnostic than to claim to be an atheist but add the disclaimer that it's possible there's a God, they just don't know...:lol:
For some reason that's one of my pet peeves.

Useless

12-04-2007, 04:55 AM

I heard someone once say: "An agnostic is an atheist who can't tell why."

I've heard lots of people say "God doesn't exist."
Does that make it true?
Who knows...hence, Agnosticism.

Vernedead

12-04-2007, 06:55 AM

I've heard lots of people say "God doesn't exist."
Does that make it true?
Who knows...hence, Agnosticism.

That's exactly what it means. An agnostic doesn't quite believe in God, but can't really give a reason why He wouldn't exist either. So, basically he's an atheist, who can't tell why he's an atheist. Get it?

Pansori

12-04-2007, 07:30 AM

LOL, and on the same note, Verne, we can say an agnostic is a theist, because they're not denying the existence of God, just the ability to prove a God exists. Tricky little suckers, they are...

Sniper

12-04-2007, 05:02 PM

Pansori

12-04-2007, 06:30 PM

Agnosticism is just wimping out. It's pretty much saying "well, it's possible that everything science is based on is completely wrong, just unlikely."

If you're not going to believe in god, just go the whole way and become a full blown atheist. :p

I think it's the other way around, Sniper. Agnosticism is more like saying: "Well, it's possible that there is a god, but since there's no way to prove it..." I don't think agnostics feel neither here nor there about science, especially since most of the belief is in regards to religion and the idea of god.

But this brings up an issue I have, and I mentioned earlier in this thread: Why just be an atheist? Why not a nihilist, or a deist (I had to throw that in, because scientists love deism :p), or hell, how about an absurdist? Why is atheism the one philosophy that people always seem to fall back on when there are so many to choose from to fit all manners of thought?

ghassassin

12-04-2007, 09:55 PM

I think it's the other way around, Sniper. Agnosticism is more like saying: "Well, it's possible that there is a god, but since there's no way to prove it..." I don't think agnostics feel neither here nor there about science, especially since most of the belief is in regards to religion and the idea of god.

Actually there are different type of agnostics.
It can be one who believes Gods existence cant be proven or disproven due to our inabilities. Its like "I dont know, neither do you".
Or, one who thinks that God's existence is unknown as of now, but can be proven or disproven in the future.
Or, one who doesnt care about the existence or non-existence of God. "Who cares?"
Or, one who doesnt know much about God but thinks HE might exist.
Or, one, totally contrary to above, doesnt know about God and thinks he can NOT exist.
Or, those who need some scientific or philosophical or empirical data or theories to believe in God.

Pansori

12-04-2007, 10:00 PM

But the core belief of agnosticism is that we lack the knowledge to prove or disprove god, and that we'll probably never have that knowledge.

XeroFaith

12-04-2007, 10:55 PM

Wow this is such a hard subject. I would say a god exist. But hard evidence I would have to say there honestly isn't any that I can think of. And we probably do have the knowledge it exist, but then we would not be part of this world once we found out. So the living would have go with our belief and hope it's right. Honestly no one can tell if a god exist or not till death. Once we go to heaven, hell, non-existence, or what ever it may be.

Sniper

12-04-2007, 11:22 PM

I think it's the other way around, Sniper. Agnosticism is more like saying: "Well, it's possible that there is a god, but since there's no way to prove it..."

Exactly what I said: "well, it's possible that everything science is based on is completely wrong, but since there's no way to prove it..."

I don't think agnostics feel neither here nor there about science

So they're Swiss?

But this brings up an issue I have, and I mentioned earlier in this thread: Why just be an atheist? Why not a nihilist, or a deist (I had to throw that in, because scientists love deism :p), or hell, how about an absurdist? Why is atheism the one philosophy that people always seem to fall back on when there are so many to choose from to fit all manners of thought?

Well, I'm not a nihilist because of The Big Lebowski (great movie by the way), and I'm not familiar with the others, though absurdist just sounds absurd. So that leaves atheism.:thumbup:

Actually there are different type of agnostics.
It can be one who believes Gods existence cant be proven or disproven due to our inabilities. Its like "I dont know, neither do you".
Or, one who thinks that God's existence is unknown as of now, but can be proven or disproven in the future.
Or, one who doesnt care about the existence or non-existence of God. "Who cares?"
Or, one who doesnt know much about God but thinks HE might exist.
Or, one, totally contrary to above, doesnt know about God and thinks he can NOT exist.
Or, those who need some scientific or philosophical or empirical data or theories to believe in God.

See? They're too confused. Just pick one already!

For anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, I am just kidding.;)

Pansori

12-04-2007, 11:56 PM

Exactly what I said: "well, it's possible that everything science is based on is completely wrong, but since there's no way to prove it..."

But that's not necessarily true, because even if we were able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt God existed, that doesn't necessarily discount science. Modern deism, Sniper, deism!!!

Deism is an interesting belief that there is a God, he created a single cell, and then just let it run. It's often compared to as a clockmaker with a clock. It doesn't believe in revelations, but in logic. I think their beliefs can be summed up pretty simply: Science is the answer to everything.

I read an article on American Scientist Online recently where they did a survey on X amount of evolutionists and their religious beliefs. Of the scientists who claimed to have theistic views the majority of them claimed deism.

I would like to talk more about it, but my knowledge is pretty limited. I do know, however, that even though deists recognize the existence of a god, their emphasis is more on scientific reasoning.

So they're Swiss?

No, it's just not their area of concern.

Well, I'm not a nihilist because of The Big Lebowski (great movie by the way), and I'm not familiar with the others, though absurdist just sounds absurd. So that leaves atheism.:thumbup:

I recognize the brilliance of The Big Leibowski. :)I want to be a nihilist just so I can say claim to be a nihilist in a heavy German accent.

That being said, my favorite Coen Bros. is Miller's Crossing.

And I love the sound of absurdism. :(
But I don't like their beliefs. -_-

See? They're too confused. Just pick one already!

For anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, I am just kidding.;)

They're not confused, they're just being neutral.

Wait, maybe they are Swiss... -_-"

EDIT: ^ That swiss comment was actually a joke. Just in case anyone missed it, SNIPER......http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/tongue/tongue0020.gif

Sniper

12-05-2007, 03:15 AM

They're not confused, they're just being neutral.

Wait, maybe they are Swiss... -_-"

AHA! I'm going to interpret that as an admittance of defeat and claim that all of your points are now null and void. This means that I win.:p

We beleve nosink, Lebowski!

Pansori

12-05-2007, 04:34 AM

AHA! I'm going to interpret that as an admittance of defeat and claim that all of your points are now null and void. This means that I win.:p

We beleve nosink, Lebowski!

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0233.gif

I will not admit defeat.
And my points are not void!!

*sulks away*

I'll remember this for next time, Sniper...

Nobody f***s with the Jesus!

Sniper

12-05-2007, 05:00 PM

Eight year olds Dude.

NamikazeMinato

12-07-2007, 03:59 AM

Religion as whole was just created for moral code. If we look back in history humans were barbarians, doing whatever they want to get what they want. So the ideology of god was created so we as humans would fear a higher being, and live in a way that is morally acceptable.

Sniper

12-07-2007, 04:17 AM

EDIT: ^ That swiss comment was actually a joke. Just in case anyone missed it, SNIPER......http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/tongue/tongue0020.gif

Not to mention any names or anything. >>

Anyways, I mostly agree with NamikazeMinato. It's interesting to look at the origin of religion from an atheist standpoint. Basically, it either came about as a moral code to obtain order, or as a means to gain and retain power by tricking people into believing that you're God's messenger even if your not.

Of course, I think the most commonly accepted idea is that religion was started when God told the authors of the Bible/Torah/Qur'an what to chisel into their stone tablets in whatever BC.

Pansori

12-07-2007, 01:16 PM

Yeah, that's pretty much true. There have been a lot of theories on the existence of religion, but the understanding among the masses is that it's functions are that of cohesion, social control, and an answer for those meaningful life questions.

One scholar named Durkheim maintained that religion was society worship by using totenism. Tribes worshipped animals, but they often had animals that represented the tribe. But that theory has, for the most part, been discarded.

Anyway, these last few weeks religion has been playing heavier in the news than usual. I was supposed to be studying for finals in the library last night, but kept getting distracted by the tv. Of the reports that was on CNN there was:

Romney's speech, supposedly defending mormonism.
Clergy for those big churches abusing the tax code.
My very favorite current controversy: The Golden Compass uproar
And one other thing, that has slipped out of my brain...:p

Sniper

12-07-2007, 05:46 PM

Yeah, religion in politics and on the news is always fun. Have you seen the video against Harry Potter? Funny stuff.

*Spark of inspiration* I see the future! It's...a new thread about religion in politics!

ghassassin

12-08-2007, 01:10 AM

One scholar named Durkheim maintained that religion was society worship by using totenism. Tribes worshipped animals, but they often had animals that represented the tribe. But that theory has, for the most part, been discarded.

In Hinduism, cow is still considered a sacred animal and people still worship them. Its not just "tribes" who worship animals. Similarly, spiders are considered sacred in Islams, not worshipped but sacred. They have their own stories to tell and own myths and legends to describe, but the animals still represent their culture.

Pansori

12-08-2007, 05:27 AM

I'm sorry, let me clarify: I was referring to Durkheim's theory that religion was society worship. He came to this conclusion after years of studying tribes who practiced totemism. And like I said previously, the theory is not one that is taken seriously today. But I realize certain animals are considered sacred among societies beyond tribes. Hell, even things like school mascots are looked at with some reverance.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 12:03 AM

i think atheism makes the most sense....you dont hav to get caught up in whos religion is better, and stay out of the political unrest it creates....

yep

12-24-2007, 01:05 AM

atheism is at the center, stating nothing exists at all, meaning every other religion looks down at you. im christian but i think if i were anything else i would prefer to be agnostic, as it keeps you out but doesnt kill everything else.

Useless

12-24-2007, 01:06 AM

I'm Agnostic. I can't disprove anything and would like to believe that there is something there, but I have no proof, hence my agnosticism. If I were to be religious, I feel I would be Deist, assuming I have a correct understanding of Deism.

wangjaz

12-24-2007, 01:47 AM

i guess i fall into an agnostic and no real religion makes much sense to me.
and yes, i been to churches (both cath & christian) many times, sunday school, & learned a bit about buddhism.

i believe there's a god or gods, but i also think most organized religions nowadays have lost their way.

I believe the "holy" guys of most religions, such as Jesus, were smartest swindlers of all time, not much different from rev. Moon.

i might worship a god, but i don't want to bow down to some guy, no matter how smart, nice or "holy" he might have been.

using promises of "heaven" and fears of "hell", religion as a whole might have been created for personal gain, or to control the masses, but a lot of good did come out of it.
philosophies of help others more needy than you, don't F*k with other ppl's wives etc.
but sadly i think, most religions nowadays preach worship your butt off first and foremost, than help others a distant second. that's one of biggest turnoffs for me. personally, i think it should be the other way around.

If religion gives u hope and strength in your life, good for you. I think that's a real good thing, and i sometimes i'm jealous of the blind devotion/hopefulness those ppl have.
but on the other hand, i think for too many ppl religion is a big crutch. "thank you god for .... god will save us, god will help us...."
for me, i like to think, If i screw up i'd like to think it's cause of my own stupid ***, and if i do well, it's also cause i'm so awesome haha :P

yep

12-24-2007, 01:50 AM

ha thats kinda like me. i dont blame everything on god, whether it be good or bad. to me effort is the biggest factor in life and god is kinda this outside force that might step in sometimes, but for the most part life is up to you.

Lol Cowgirl

12-24-2007, 03:15 AM

I am agnosticistic and an athiest (yes, you can be both) and some could say I lean towards Satanism. I do not believe in a high power than my own. That works for me, and if I'm wrong, than I'm wrong. There is nothing to change that.

In my opinion, the only religion that makes the most sense is Satanism. It promotes the will of ones self, and living life to it's fulless while being a good hearted person. If that's not a great religion, than I don't know what is.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:16 AM

so u worship Satan? thats not something you hear everyday......

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:17 AM

Well, I think some of the rules of Satanism, such as 'If a person annoys you, ask them to leave. If they do not comply, destroy them.' might deter a person from the religion.
I'd like to ask how you can be both. If you believe there might be a God, and then say there is no chance of it, its contradictory. Please enlighten me.
so u worship Satan? thats not something you hear everyday......

Satanism has nothing to do with Satan.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:18 AM

yeah...to believe in Satan...but not god is really a paradox....

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:19 AM

They don't worship Satan, its merely the name.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:19 AM

then they should change the name...

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:22 AM

They won't change the name. Every Satanist can't just get together and have a meeting. Its more of the opposition of God, hence the Satan. Its perfectly logical.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:23 AM

yeah but when you hear the name...the first thing you think...is cults that kidnap and murder(or sacrifice as they call it), or those guys who perform cattle mutilation

Raijuu

12-24-2007, 03:24 AM

.... isnt it going against all what God stands for is believing in Satan?

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:26 AM

You don't think that if you know of the Religion and its practices, so your wrong. I don't think religions submit to peer pressure anyways...

No it isn't Raijuu. Satan would be the foil, of sorts, of God. To believe in one is to believe in the other (basically...), so they don't. They merely named their religion after Christian beliefs.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:27 AM

its not called satanism then...its called being selfish....

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:34 AM

That doesn't make much sense...
They don't agree with Catholic beliefs, they are the foil of them, so they are the opposite. Wouldn't the opposite of God be Satan?

Lol Cowgirl

12-24-2007, 03:34 AM

Well, I think some of the rules of Satanism, such as 'If a person annoys you, ask them to leave. If they do not comply, destroy them.' might deter a person from the religion.

Well if someone really annoying refuses to leave you alone, wouldn't you want wish they would just blow up into a million little pieces? One cannot simply turn the other cheek when playing a oneside game of 20 questions with a moron.

I'd like to ask how you can be both. If you believe there might be a God, and then say there is no chance of it, its contradictory. Please enlighten me.

Well, it's quite hard to explain. The unsurity of there being a higher power is there, but the acknowledgement of the higher power's idenity is is not. I do not believe in the idenity of "god" for there is no true idenity for this force. I hope that makes sense, it sure does to me.

then they should change the name...

The name stays.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:35 AM

That doesn't make much sense...
They don't agree with Catholic beliefs, they are the foil of them, so they are the opposite. Wouldn't the opposite of God be Satan?

i have to agree with him on this one...

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:37 AM

Well if someone really annoying refuses to leave you alone, wouldn't you want wish they would just blow up into a million little pieces? One cannot simply turn the other cheek when playing a oneside game of 20 questions with a moron.

Well, it's quite hard to explain. The unsurity of there being a higher power is there, but the acknowledgement of the higher power's idenity is is not. I do not believe in the idenity of "god" for there is no true idenity for this force. I hope that makes sense, it sure does to me.

The name stays.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense for me...:/
There are plenty of people I would love to see in pain, but I can't just do that...
Blaming it on your religion is also stupid, especially when we, at least I, don't live in a theocracy.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:39 AM

talking about something is one thing..,.but to murder...thats just wrong....

Deidara's Replacement*

12-24-2007, 03:44 AM

I think that there really is no one true religion that makes the most sense. Their all based off of one thing, and that's beings higher than ourselves. Whether it be one or many, there is something on a higher plane of being. Really, the religion you choose depends on what kind of person you are.

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:47 AM

Well...in most cases, the religion you choose is the religion you grow up with since, in this generation, who has the time (or initiative...) to go out and try out other religions? >.>
There really isn't an answer here..Like I said earlier in this debate, you will always think your religion is the best. Otherwise, you wouldn't waste your time practicing it.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:47 AM

what about atheism...thats nothing to get confused over....

Useless

12-24-2007, 03:49 AM

I don't think Atheism is the best choice. What happens when you lived your life, sinning it up as much as possible, and it turns out Shiva needs to destroy you? What will you do then?
Thats why I prefer the middle ground of Agnosticism. Otherwise known as the Religiously Swiss. Although, if there is a heaven/hell, I'll be in hell...with just about every human being on Earth.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 03:50 AM

ok....i"m agnostic anyway......just doesn't mix well with my favoring of communism

Lol Cowgirl

12-24-2007, 03:52 AM

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense for me...:/

Well, let me explain a little bit better. I do not believe in God. I am, however, unsure if there is a higher power. If there were a higher power, I do not believe it has an indenity.

There are plenty of people I would love to see in pain, but I can't just do that...
Blaming it on your religion is also stupid, especially when we, at least I, don't live in a theocracy.[/QUOTE]

They don't mean that you actually have to kill the person who is annoying you. Just scare the guy a little.

Useless

12-24-2007, 04:04 AM

Oh...I guess that makes more sense. (not much mind you ^.^)

I understand now...not God, but a higher power.
Thanks for the clarification.

Rosario_Vampire

12-24-2007, 04:05 AM

so i guess we can say there is no real answer to this question?

Useless

12-24-2007, 04:08 AM

There is no real answer. Its all opinion based upon what you are practicing, unless there is a strange person who thinks another religion is the best, but the aren't practicing it.

nope

12-24-2007, 04:08 AM

of course there isn't... religion is a personal choice based on your own spiritually beliefs. Theres absolutely no way to determine whether the one you chose is right or not.. you beat me to it you ***

Lol Cowgirl

12-24-2007, 04:09 AM

Oh...I guess that makes more sense. (not much mind you ^.^)

I understand now...not God, but a higher power.
Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I told you it's hard to explain. But basically, I do not believe in God, but the exastance of a higher power (e.i. a deity of creation) is left debatable.

ghassassin

12-24-2007, 03:29 PM

Yeah, I told you it's hard to explain. But basically, I do not believe in God, but the exastance of a higher power (e.i. a deity of creation) is left debatable.

Dont you address that "higher power" as God itself? I think you are confusing Pagan-figurines with God....Well, in some religions they are one and the same but in a general notion they are totally different.

hellfishfirefly

12-24-2007, 05:21 PM

i do not suport religions..and still i do...As i am doing research and searching pictures about hell
(>.<) (>.<) (>.<) (>.<)

but in a good mood , i can say every religion makes sence , as they all have the power to make ppl wana fight and go on with there life "i do not mean extremist terrorists" but i mean the ill or the depressed , the incapacitated and the less fortunate...

then what religions dont make sence :
- religions of illegal groups and sektes (dont know the correct english lolz)
- easily miss interpreted religeons wich eventualy provoces violence (....i know u know what i mean)

Lol Cowgirl

12-24-2007, 08:06 PM

Dont you address that "higher power" as God itself? I think you are confusing Pagan-figurines with God....Well, in some religions they are one and the same but in a general notion they are totally different.

A higher power is not neccesserily the Western god it's self. I reject the idea of there being one true force in the world. The higher power is not just that one deity. It could be a cluster of god's that make up the world, thus the higher power.

Also what do you mean by "Pagan-figurines"? And no I am not "confusing" these "Pagan-figurines" with God.

PAGANS and their FIGURINES always CONFUSING their FIGURINES with GOD. (I couldn't help. PAGAN-FIGURINES is funny. PAGANS!)

ghassassin

12-25-2007, 10:40 AM

A higher power is not neccesserily the Western god it's self. I reject the idea of there being one true force in the world.

^ This ...

The higher power is not just that one deity. It could be a cluster of god's that make up the world, thus the higher power.

^ ...and this are contradictory.
I think you need to review your thoughts once again. You are slightly unclear within yourself.

Vernedead

12-25-2007, 11:18 AM

I think you need to review your thoughts once again. You are slightly unclear within yourself.

I think what that person is trying to say, is that she doesn't believe in the existence of a Christian God, but in something similar, which is composed of multiple existences that together form an universal function that resembles the Christian God.
In other words, the existence of multiple entities functioning together as something like God is more likely, in her opinion, than the existence of a single entity, God. That statement in itself isn't contradicting, since a cluster of lesser gods doesn't equal a single ultimate force, which she said doesn't exist.

Not that it makes any sense either way.

ghassassin

12-25-2007, 11:27 AM

Oh okay. According to her there is an organization some where located in heaven consisting of various "Gods" that regulate and control our day to day life. Well, can be possible since no one knows the truth.....but that contradicts her statement of denying the existence of God. God doesnt need to be a person, in case he/she/it/they exist. Even that entity or organization she is talking about can be termed as God.
To be honest, I am still not getting what she wants to say. Coz on one hand she is rejecting the idea of any true force and on the other hand she is talking about an "organization" acting as that true force....

SooHip

12-25-2007, 07:04 PM

hellfishfirefly

12-26-2007, 02:39 AM

then il take my risks and go for hell..then making myself see ghosts...as for jesus..yeah he was there....and what can ptove that he was such a good person annyways....some historians who cant publsih there original findings bacause the church puts presure on them...

almost yearly the church nearly leaks out info on there secret database...and ive seen footage od there library filed with "ur not authorized to enter" sections...

also a lot of books they rather burn then let them be seen by the public..

....i dont believe in one all powerfull god that never shows himself..or even shows a glimp of his power...

as so..this relligion makes no sense to me...as for all religionw that believe in forces u never see , feel , hear or can touch...

lolz

Rosario_Vampire

12-26-2007, 03:45 AM

as a communist....im supposed to be atheist....but im actually agnostic, just 2b safe, yuh know?

Sniper

12-26-2007, 06:01 AM

This is my take in this..you can have either 2 choices:
1) Believe in Jesus, and live out your Christian life. And in the end..
i) If your right: you go to heaven and you live forever
ii) If your wrong: Nothing happens, and you lose nothing/you gain nothing.

2) Dont believe in Jesus and live only for youself. And in the end..
i) If your right: Nothing happens, and you lose nothing/you gain nothing.
ii) If your wrong: You go to hell and you suffer there.

Hmm, not quite. If you live a pious life without real faith, you sacrifice a lot of freedom and time to something that you don't believe is true. Also, supposedly God knows whether you're really faithful or just acting and that would have to come into account. It's better to live your life with your beliefs at heart, not someone else's.

Also, you can't scare an atheist with Hell. It just doesn't work.;)

Useless

12-26-2007, 06:08 AM

Theres also the choice of....non Christian religion. That comes up in a few places around the world....very few though. I see why you didn't mention it. >.>
There are plenty of other choices too...Like, for example, you believe in God your whole life, find out your religion was wrong, and then burn for eternity, with a few chill breaks with Satan!

ghassassin

12-26-2007, 08:16 AM

....i dont believe in one all powerfull god that never shows himself..or even shows a glimp of his power...

as so..this relligion makes no sense to me...as for all religionw that believe in forces u never see , feel , hear or can touch...

Even if the God exists in any physical form, I dont think there is any need for him/her to come out for a show.
As fore religion and physical forces, consider this...
Light is made of photons, you feel it. Same way you can feel or rather sense darkness. What is darkness made of?
Similarly you feel heat caused due to molecular motion.....and you feel cold caused due to.....???
Same way, things always dont need to exist to .....exist. I hope you are getting what I mean...
Though I dont believe in anything like God.....infact I am blaspehmous at times, but I cant deny certain things.

Theres also the choice of....non Christian religion. That comes up in a few places around the world....very few though. I see why you didn't mention it. >.>

Few?
2.1 billion - Christianity
1.5 billion - Islam
1.4 billion - Indian religions

You call it few?

Sniper

12-26-2007, 07:22 PM

...ghass has no ability to sense sarcasm.

That said, you don't experience darkness or cold. You can experience light or heat, and when those don't exist, we call it darkness or cold. Sensing darkness is the experience of not sensing anything at all, not sensing something that isn't there.

ghassassin

12-27-2007, 08:23 AM

That said, you don't experience darkness or cold. You can experience light or heat, and when those don't exist, we call it darkness or cold. Sensing darkness is the experience of not sensing anything at all, not sensing something that isn't there.

What do you feel or experience during winters? True indeed, darkness is absence of light and cold is due to absence of heat...but still you see and sense darkness and experience cold.....I think.
Right now I am covered in blanket. I thought I was feeling cold for all this time....>.>

Sniper

12-27-2007, 05:44 PM

I thought I was feeling cold for all this time....>.>

Nope. You're just not feeling heat. Which we need.;)

Rena Okita

12-27-2007, 10:46 PM

I think it's ridiculous when people say you are going to "hell" if you don't believe the way they do. I mean, I don't know if there is a god, I believe in whatever god is somewhat. It's just nice to believe in something.

Chibaya

12-28-2007, 12:07 AM

Shinobi no Kami

12-28-2007, 01:28 AM

No religion is better than another. They all claim to be the "right" path. How is one to choose? I don't believe in the God of the Bible, or any other religion for that matter. I won't say there is no God, as I have no way to prove it. I do believe that there are phenomena in nature that we may never be able to explain. Science has yet to answer the most important question of all. Where do we come from? If you hold the Big Bang Theory to be true, then all sorts of questions pop up. We know that matter is neither created nor destroyed, it only changes form. Where did the energy needed for the Big Bang come from? Perhaps it came from another dimension. The answer is still a long ways off. My point is, debating about this is useless. There may very well be a God, and Science may one day prove this. For now, we should all just do the best we can and take things one day at a time.

ghassassin

12-28-2007, 08:44 AM

As anyone ever considered that perhaps Religion is only a Mass Delusion??? As for Athiestism (Atheism), how is it a lazy man's religion? Athiest's believe in science, and science is a growing field, with new discoveries and facts that lead everyone one step closer to showing that religion can be explained. Religion is something man came up with to help understand the confusing things that were going on around them.

Besides, many folks who claim to be religious, often twist things so it suits their own life styles. Saying"oh God intended me to be this way" and being a alcoholic, or such. Plus as said, many people don't even go to church or prey or anything else. So is that not lazy?

Many atheists have been atheists for years. They have encountered many arguments and much supposed evidence for the existence of God, but they have found all of it to be invalid or inconclusive. Thousands of years of religious belief haven't resulted in any good proof of the existence of God. Atheists therefore tend to feel that they are unlikely to be proved wrong in the immediate future, and they stop worrying about it.
Theists on the other hand dont always question their beliefs...or maybe because the beliefs being questioned are not similar. Weak atheism is the skeptical "default position" to take which asserts nothing. Strong atheism is a negative belief. Theism is a very strong positive belief.

As for what you are referring to is the "superstitious" nature of the theists. On that note, well, for theists religion represents a huge financial and work burden on mankind. It's not just a matter of religious believers wasting their money on church buildings, think of all the time and effort spent building churches, praying, and blah blah. Imagine how that effort could be better spent. Many theists believe in miracle healing. There have been plenty of instances of ill people being "healed" by a priest, ceasing to take the medicines prescribed to them by doctors, and dying as a result. Some theists have died because they have refused blood transfusions on religious grounds. Even though it is debatable but imo, the Catholic Church's opposition to birth control and use of contraceptions is increasing the problem of overpopulation in many third-world countries and contributing to the spread of AIDS world-wide. Religious believers have been known to murder their children rather than allow their children to become atheists or marry someone of a different religion. Religious leaders have been known to justify murder on the grounds of blasphemy. There have been many religious wars. Even if we accept the argument that religion was not the true cause of those wars, it was still used as an effective justification for them.
You can relate it to superstitious nature of the so called "theists" but its more of a large horde of people following the band-wagon to an unknown power named God.

Pansori

01-02-2008, 08:41 PM

As anyone ever considered that perhaps Religion is only a Mass Delusion??? As for Athiestism, how is it a lazy man's religion? Athiest's believe in science, and science is a growing field, with new discoveries and facts that lead everyone one step closer to showing that religion can be explained. Religion is something man came up with to help understand the confusing things that were going on around them.

Besides, many folks who claim to be religious, often twist things so it suits their own life styles. Saying"oh God intended me to be this way" and being a alcoholic, or such. Plus as said, many people don't even go to church or prey or anything else. So is that not lazy?

Did you not read my follow up when I explained my view on why I said atheism was lazy?

Let me explain... a teacher told us about an article he read with an interview of some well known evolutionist. The evolutionist was asked if he was an atheist, and he replied "Atheism is the lazy way out." He said this because he felt that just coming out and saying there is no God is a quick and simple cop out.

As I said previously, there are so many views beyond atheism to fit almost anybody's belief. I'm not saying all people who are atheists are lazy (because as I said, my mother is a tried and true atheist, and Buddhism at its purest is an atheistic religion). What I was trying to say that many people are quick to proclaim themselves atheists without delving further into other beliefs or theories that may be more suitable to their ideas. And yes, I do find that lazy.

Sniper

01-03-2008, 03:23 AM

It's true. I was looking at a shelf in Barnes and Nobles with atheist books in it and I thought to myself "you know, these people aren't any different than the religious extremists. They just believe a different thing." Titles like "The God Delusion" don't prove a point, they just piss off people who believe in God.

I legitimately don't think that God exists, but that's my personal opinion and I'm not going to try and force anyone else to share it. I may try and convert them, but I'm never going to go against their will or disrespect their right to disagree. Too many people become hardcore atheists simply for the shock value.

serenity043

01-03-2008, 04:42 AM

The major religions (particularly Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) today all are related in one way or another - some even stemming off of one another or others being branches of another. (I'll explain this if anyone actually wants to know). Religion has long been used as a means to understand the world around us. First man believed in the idea that many spirits controlled the different forces of nature etc. then as we intellectually evolved man started believing in the notion that there was one force that presided over all things. These concepts helped man to cope with an ever changing world, death, emotions etc.
To say that one religion is better than another is not the smartest thing, for each religion has its good and bad aspects. You shouldn't criticize religions based on the ideas of non-belief either. My opinion - just keep an open mind and it doesn't matter what you believe in = )

snake2243

01-03-2008, 05:10 AM

ghassassin

01-03-2008, 05:24 AM

hmm if possible some one answer this question for me..why do peaple folow religion if every religion is wrong (well my paster at church told me that thair is no writen religion on the bible). the way i see it believe jesus is you'r savior believe in god dont worship santan and be good the best you can be.

People who dont think "following a particular religion" is wrong follow it. Those who dont think that way dont follow it.
Most of the religious followers, in my opinion, are just a bunch of people afraid of a hypothetical, mysterious, supreme authority known as God and that makes them inherit a religion what their ancestors have been practicing for centuries.
Satanism as you are saying is highly related to anti-christianity nowadays. But in real and rational terms, its not that. Satanism isnt blasphemy, but a religion whole on a different level, totally secluded from other religions. If you read Lavey's bible, your perception about satanism may change.

Fudo-myo-o

01-03-2008, 07:26 PM

all religions have loopholes in them but people still follow these reliogions and are aware of these loopholes.

In Islam if You believe in Allah or God or whatever you want to call him you inherently fear him

Right now i am agnostic

You know stephen colbert once said that agnostics are atheists without balls
LOL

Tekkaman Saber

01-03-2008, 07:42 PM

I cannot really understand that though by what i've heard agnostics acept that their could be something out their while an atheist dosen't believe in anything.

ghassassin

01-03-2008, 07:59 PM

I cannot really understand that though by what i've heard agnostics accpet that their could eb something out their while an atheist dosn't believe in anything.

People do confuse atheists with agnostics, but anyways.

Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method or a thought which advocates that people do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable...I hope you (in general) get it. An agnostic doesn't necessarily believe or disbelieve in a god but rather he or she doesn't profess to know if there's a god at all. What they suggest in wilder terms is that it's impossible to ever know if a god exists or not.
Atheism is a little simpler to understand and is basically defined as a disbelief in any god. However, atheists themselves hold varied beliefs that generally fall into two main camps. "Weak atheism" is a lack of belief in a god. "Strong atheism" is a belief that no god exists and cannot exist. To compare the two, a weak atheist might say, "Gods might exist, but I don't worship them." Whereas a strong atheist might say, "It is impossible for any gods to exist, so there's no reason to believe in the idea. Go to hell you superstitious idiots.."
But still I agree, atheist and agnostic ...well as two terms may overlap. Occasionally, people use "agnostic" as a more socially acceptable word for "atheist." This usage irritates some atheists. They think that agnosticism is just a subset of atheism because agnostics generally do not believe in gods. Some feel that using "agnostic" in this way reinforces the incorrect idea that all atheism is strong atheism.

Sniper

01-04-2008, 05:33 AM

ghassassin

01-07-2008, 11:19 AM

Now to think of it, atheists are commonly misunderstood as satanists in some cases. As for my opinion there is a big difference which is obvious to many.
Atheists come to the conclusion that there is no God and thus become atheists. There is a very small number of people, though, who claim to be atheists although they actually do still believe in a god. Occasionally you see answers like "My sister died a horrible death. Why should I believe in a god that would let that happen?" Well, obviously, just because an entity allows something you don't like doesn't mean said entity doesn't exist. That person is just "angry at" a god he obviously still believes in. He is using atheism as an excuse to no longer WORSHIP said deity, but this is tantamount to me not believing in my boss because I didn't get a big enough raise.
Others who get "angry with" god, turn to his foil to piss him off. Those people, motivated the same way but not in denial about their actual belief, call themselves "satanists."
There are also Satanists who follow Lavey satanism, which doesn't actually believe in satan. So, to answer the question, a small contingent of both atheists (who are not true atheists) and satanists (who are not true satanists) take on those names simply because they are mad at an entity they still believe in.
Atheists do not believe in God, so a true atheist has no connection with the equally (in the opinion of an atheist) non-existent satan, but tiny the angry-with-god contingent shares a motivation with the small angry-with-god satanist contingent.

statcat

01-10-2008, 10:52 PM

That's exactly what it means. An agnostic doesn't quite believe in God, but can't really give a reason why He wouldn't exist either. So, basically he's an atheist, who can't tell why he's an atheist. Get it?

an agnostic is someone who believes in something but has doubts.

statcat

01-10-2008, 11:00 PM

Your definition of a "weak atheist" fit an agnostic better. Atheists don't believe there is a god, and don't think there can be a god. While obviously there are people who are more hardcore about it, all atheists will agree that there is no god. That's what defines an atheist.

theyre are atheists who disagree with the teachings of religion and theyre are those who say ithout reasoning say there is no greater power.Sorry for double post.

statcat

01-10-2008, 11:02 PM

Your definition of a "weak atheist" fit an agnostic better. Atheists don't believe there is a god, and don't think there can be a god. While obviously there are people who are more hardcore about it, all atheists will agree that there is no god. That's what defines an atheist.
there are atheists who have reason not to believe and theyre are those who dont know hy they don't believe

trackles

01-10-2008, 11:08 PM

For Me the the most religion that makes sense is Bhuddism although iam not a believer i would say that it is the one that makes most sense and is most appealing because of its peacefullness.

ghassassin

01-10-2008, 11:14 PM

For Me the the most religion that makes sense is Bhuddism although iam not a believer i would say that it is the one that makes most sense and is most appealing because of its peacefullness.

No religion teaches violence, whatsoever. Buddhism has some positive aspects, so do other religions. But well, the best part of Buddhism being, Buddha is not the god of their religion. Buddhists are more inclined towards his teachings and doctrines than him.

statcat

01-10-2008, 11:24 PM

No religion teaches violence, whatsoever. Buddhism has some positive aspects, so do other religions. But well, the best part of Buddhism being, Buddha is not the god of their religion. Buddhists are more inclined towards his teachings and doctrines than him.

they are the most enlightened peoples as far as theists go in my opinion.

Franckie

01-11-2008, 02:51 AM

No religion makes any sense. Beliefs are shaped by an individual's experiences, resulting in a variety of views which initiate conflict, discussion, etc. A Protestant will make no sense for a Catholic, a Jew will make no sense for a Gentile, a Buddhist will make no sense to a Paganist, so on and so forth.

What religion makes sense depends upon a particular culture. Even if that culture recognizes a different view exists, the acceptable view will be the view of the majority that is passed on to posterity.

IMO - "God" does not exist. While I do believe in concepts of Heaven and Hell, I do not believe them in the sense of an afterlife; I hold such concepts to be applicable only to living. I believe in the "religion" of Convenience. If it is convenient for me to be a Buddhist, then so be it; if it is convenient for me to be a Muslim, then so be it; if it is convenient for me to respect another person's beliefs, then so be it; etc etc.

Pansori

01-11-2008, 04:48 AM

an agnostic is someone who believes in something but has doubts.

There are agnostics who are atheists, something that I believe was discussed in this thread, or one of the other religious threads. But that doesn't necessarily mean they believe in something.

Agnostics believe that we don't have the knowledge to prove whether or not their is a god. Hence the word: a-without, gnostic-knowledge.

Also, instead of triple posting, you can just edit your original post.

Mazer8

01-30-2008, 08:11 AM

Sniper

01-30-2008, 03:06 PM

I'm currently reading "Life of Pi" by Yann Martel, and the main character, Pi, has some very interesting opinions on religion. One quote I like is when he's talking about agnostics. He says "To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."

Lucha

01-31-2008, 07:18 PM

For Me the the most religion that makes sense is Bhuddism although iam not a believer i would say that it is the one that makes most sense and is most appealing because of its peacefullness.

Buddhism has one flaw in sense, it is the origin of the mankind. Siddharta Gautama (Buddha himself) were human that attain enlightment. Buddhism is more about teachings than religion. But the problem is, where did men came from? Christian state that men came from God himself, so with the muslim.

Christian (Protestan and Chatolic are the same) make sense in logic, but then again there are too much speculation in the religion itself, mostly done by the church (Vatikan) themself. Example, the Judas gospel, and many other gospel that don't included in Bible are causing alot of difference in the christian religion. And the da vinci code... (just speculation...)

Muslim have some similarity with christian, the origin of mankind are clear. But the teachings are somehow, let's say, radical... Some man are making muslim sounds like 'Suicide bombing leads to heaven' and that's very illogical way of thinking and that is missintepreted teachings...

As for me myself, I'll quote some word from 'Kingdom of Heaven' movie.
"It's a Kingdom of conscience"

thefalz

02-01-2008, 12:13 PM

So, we shall carry on from Atheism, the lazy man's religion.

But then again, the same can be said of any religion (or anti religion) you get "Catholics" who have been to church twice their whole life.

lol!
athetism is not a religion its a word to describe lack of religion
its like abstenence
lack of sex isnt protection from sex its simply not having sex..
so having no religion isnt a religion....
also im catholic but i dont believe my religion is flawless, no religion is and we as humans will never know alot about the world until our inevitable deaths...

NeoneX

02-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Buddhism has one flaw in sense, it is the origin of the mankind. Siddharta Gautama (Buddha himself) were human that attain enlightment. Buddhism is more about teachings than religion. But the problem is, where did men came from? Christian state that men came from God himself, so with the muslim.

I don't think religion really needs to have an origin of man kind anyway. As you said, the Buddah himself was once a human and gained enlightenment. To me it didn't sound like where men came from was important. Seeking for a peaceful end or some sort of enlightenment in a person's life seems to be the main teaching.

I go by the teachings of the 'tao'. Taoists. But I doubt that'll fall under this debate. I dont' think it's a religion at all. Just a teaching of life.

Sparks

02-01-2008, 07:35 PM

not read the whole of this debate, but how is it that almost every religion wishes to have giant religous areas that cost money to make and maintain, when they could use it to better the lives of others.

on a lighter not i believe the church of the flying spaghetti monster makes the most sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster

Sniper

02-01-2008, 07:47 PM

on a lighter not i believe the church of the flying spaghetti monster makes the most sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster

Haha, I agree completely. I'm a pastafarian and I have the Gospel of the FSM, as well as a t-shirt.:thumbup:

Here's something that explains all religions:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c364/gamingguy/religion.jpg

Lucha

02-02-2008, 10:08 AM

That is one good way to define religion snipe... ^^!

I don't think religion really needs to have an origin of man kind anyway. As you said, the Buddah himself was once a human and gained enlightenment. To me it didn't sound like where men came from was important. Seeking for a peaceful end or some sort of enlightenment in a person's life seems to be the main teaching.

Religion exist because humans believes that there's one supreme power that makes this '***t' happens. There must be first thing to begin with... Thus humans submit to this 'power' and hope that 'power' will protect them from any harm.

Now Buddha was human? Where's that 'power' that human seeks?

ghassassin

02-02-2008, 10:35 AM

Now Buddha was human? Where's that 'power' that human seeks?

Buddha is not a "God" of Buddhism, unlike Jesus of Christianity. Buddhism is not a religion to begin with. Its a set of teachings rather, which often take the form of a cult or religion. Teachings laid out by a dude known as Buddha who attained enlightenment, and the steps he walked upon are summarized in Buddhism. They are rather ethical teachings or philosophical thoughts to make one, experience "reality".

But well, Buddhism also has its fair share of criticism. Many oppose it for being idolatrous. Even the kamikaze attacks of WWII were inspired by Buddhism. So, it does have pros and cons in a nutshell. Its quite a broad topic when it comes to denial. Buddha himself lacked answers to a lot of questions (When sh*t happens, is it really sh*t?)....and blah blah.

Lucha

02-02-2008, 01:57 PM

Buddha is not a "God" of Buddhism, unlike Jesus of Christianity. Buddhism is not a religion to begin with. Its a set of teachings rather, which often take the form of a cult or religion. Teachings laid out by a dude known as Buddha who attained enlightenment, and the steps he walked upon are summarized in Buddhism. They are rather ethical teachings or philosophical thoughts to make one, experience "reality".

It depends on the place I think. Buddhism is religion, in Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, China, Japan, and most of Eastern and SE Asia nations acknowledge Buddhism as religion.

True that it's a set of teaching on the beginning, but after buddhism spread to China, it blends with the ancestral religion in China at early era. Thus it's acknowledge as one of a religion for most of people in Eastern & SE Asia.

Also true that buddha was human (and so with Jesus), but also when buddhism enters China, people start to worship him as God. Ask any Buddhist nowadays, "who is your God?" the answer will be the same... "Buddha..."

ghassassin

02-02-2008, 02:11 PM

It depends on the place I think. Buddhism is religion, in Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, China, Japan, and most of Eastern and SE Asia nations acknowledge Buddhism as religion.

True that it's a set of teaching on the beginning, but after buddhism spread to China, it blends with the ancestral religion in China at early era. Thus it's acknowledge as one of a religion for most of people in Eastern & SE Asia.

Also true that buddha was human (and so with Jesus), but also when buddhism enters China, people start to worship him as God. Ask any Buddhist nowadays, "who is your God?" the answer will be the same... "Buddha..."

That way, even Ray Charles can be God. Or ask the people of Area 51, "who is your God?" the answer will be "Chuck Norris..."

Heh. Those Chinese or Vietnamese or whatever are just the followers who jumped in the band wagon calling themselves Buddhists. Buddhism states that the notions of a sovereign God, Atman (soul) are figments of the imagination or manifestations of the mind and can also be an impediment to perfection as this leads to attachment to the concept of "God".

All such notions as causation, succession, atoms, primary elements, that make up personality, personal soul, Supreme Spirit, Sovereign God, Creator, are all figments of the imagination and manifestations of mind.

Shinobi no Kami

02-03-2008, 02:38 AM

Though I wish religion was real, I gave it up long ago. After watching how desperate we humans will cling to life...I came to the conclusion that we made all of our religions up to ease the thought of ceasing to exist upon death.

I agree completely. How ironic that systems of belief created to unite us and provide courage in the face of the unknown are actually dividing mankind and bringing us closer and closer to the one thing we fear most...death.

xycjustin

02-03-2008, 05:17 AM

my friend said there was this chinese guy that had a theory that there was a god. and he used science as a basis for that theory. he said the theory was in chinese. so i was like screw it im not gunna look 4 it on google. does ne1 no it? cause im pretty curious

Necrosis

02-03-2008, 05:48 AM

This is a message for all the people who think God CANNOT exist. No this theory doesn't prove that god exist but it disproves the theory that God Cannot exist. Programmers and other computer scientist have began to make a program that will go around the internet and gather information and knowledge. It will then validate all the data that it has gotten making sure that it is correct. Once that has been done it will create it own world (a program) which there will be people (programs) thinking that they are real. These people will believe (cause there programmed to) that they are real. This world will go on and change over time. So it will be very similar if not the same as ours. People (programs) will live out there lives and die and have fear. They will argue about god and other things. Now what does this have to do with god. The program that made this world can change it and do anything to it. Thus this program in a way is a god. Now the theory goes on saying that someone in that world will create another program that will do the same thing and start the process all over. Although that doesn't have much to do with this current discussion.

Another note that I want to make. There are actully 3 different kinds of Satan/Devils.
1.) Lucifer: The devil we all know who is in hell waiting for you.
2.) Satan: An Angel who believes all humans are devil. He tries to prove to god that they are but he still follows god and is still in Heaven. In this version there is no such thing as hell. Everyone goes to heaven.
3.) (I don't know the name of this Satan/Devil). This Devil disagrees with God. God believes only certain humans should enter heaven. While the Devil says that humans that are not fit in enter heaven must go to hell first then after they have become fit they may enter heaven.

Pansori

02-03-2008, 06:01 AM

Buddhism is a religion. It's classified as an atheistic religion. Technically, what defines a religion is there being a distinction between the sacred and the secular. Although Buddhism, at its purest, does not tout a god, it does have sacred elements.

silvernekokitsune

02-04-2008, 09:27 PM

believe whatever you want. i acept any religion weather or not i under stand it, unless it's one of those people who believe that they're religion is the best and everyone else is going to hell. me, i'm born a jew but weather i stay one is completely up to me. what would you do if someday they actually did prove what religion was "right" ?

Tekkaman Saber

02-04-2008, 09:30 PM

I'd probably laugh at my science teacher because of the moronic comment he said.

Anyway even if religion isn't true that dosen't mean that the holy books don't have a purpose they could still be used as a guide for how to live your life.
Obviously their are exeptions though e.g. if a religion is pro wife beating or pro human sacrifices then i would assume that it would be common sence to not do those things.

Lucha

02-05-2008, 01:35 PM

That way, even Ray Charles can be God. Or ask the people of Area 51, "who is your God?" the answer will be "Chuck Norris..."

God exist when there are people acknowledge him as a 'God'. If people starts to worship Chuck Norris as a God..., yes..., in a millenia after today..., there'll be a study about 'Chuck Norris' Religion...

Another example, know 'Guan Yu' of ROTK? He's worshipped by Chinese as God of Prosperity...

I don't know if he's really a God now up there, but still... he's worshipped by chinese as a 'GOD'...

ghassassin

02-06-2008, 05:01 AM

believe whatever you want. i acept any religion weather or not i under stand it,
Travelling in a train, unaware of the destination is called retardness.
God exist when there are people acknowledge him as a 'God'. If people starts to worship Chuck Norris as a God..., yes..., in a millenia after today..., there'll be a study about 'Chuck Norris' Religion...

Religion has nothing to do with a "God". Indeed there are "Gods" related to religions but not every religion has a "God". If your IQ is above 50, you should know the difference between a "cult" and a "religion".

neko_kun_david

02-06-2008, 11:10 AM

I think all religions are merely based upon a person's strong desire to believe and need of self-comfort of some sort, thats all religions are, and I am sorry to say this, but all they are is a security blanket for those in need, though to say which is most believeable I would say it is definitely not christianity, the bible is riddled with contridictions, the "VIRGIN" mary for one having jesus, I could go on but I won't, and with that said I will take my leave.

-=david=-

Tekkaman Saber

02-06-2008, 11:14 AM

Have you got evidence to say that "all religions" are just for "self comfort" as you put it.
Is atheism Just for comfort then?

Sniper

02-06-2008, 04:19 PM

Here's some evidence: No religions make any sense and all have many parts that are impossible by every meaning of the word.

Oh, and if Atheism is for comfort, than barbed wire is wool yarn.

Evilminion18

02-06-2008, 08:06 PM

Well as a Jenova's witness and member of the Church of th One Winged Angel I think it's time i shared my beliefs, please pm me if you wish to learn more of reunion and ty ^_^. JK

Ok not being serious at all but most religons don't make any sense but still have some good ideas on how to live. For stuff to make sense such as miricles you have to have faith if you don't of course it won't make sense, but I also believing in respect anothers beliefs no matter how weird they might seem to me.

Sniper

02-06-2008, 08:36 PM

VG Cats: The Word, making fun of Final Fantasy VII
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/060625.jpg

VG Cats: Wright to life, making fun of Spore
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/060619.jpg

REIRA~

02-11-2008, 01:21 PM

I think for people to believe in religion,there must be the ones who can show the sense of believing in god.otherwise,you cant make a religion 'loveable' i guess.there are science in Kur-an for example or the things in bible and in the other books really says great things about being a 'human'. but if people cant see these sides of the religions and just see how people are bastardizing it,no one whose beliefs are different wont be satisfied and just ignore the fact that there is god.It is all about doing some research and read the books which people are believing in. dont look others behaviours who belive in a religion. just read and then if it still doesnt make any sense, you can say that this whole existence of religion is a bull****. but i dont think that way cause actually religions must be international and they should lead your way to be more modern and useful for the human race.being a muslim or being a christian or being a jew.it doesnt matter.the important matter is to understand why there are religions.It is to tresure your existence.to tresure your lifes and do useful stuff. It is for being a total human,like being kind and gentle.It is to make the peace,not to make wars or anything.but nowadays,i'm really sorry that believing god is being mesured by how you can close your body and hair or how you can manage to be more strict about your religion in an unkind way.I dont consider those people belong to any religion. It is just about benefits i think.you should tresure woman too as the books say but look at other countries who say that they are strict about their religion.they never question their existence.you should question everything in the world and find the answer.that is what religions say.but of course it is my opinion and thnx for reading :)

Tyrrel87

02-11-2008, 02:24 PM

The interrogative is: does any religion really make sense?

ghassassin

02-11-2008, 04:09 PM

To those who follow it does. Whether they have reasons or explanations for it or not, it apparently does. Those who avoid or ignore religion, it doesn't.

REIRA~

02-11-2008, 06:55 PM

To those who follow it does. Whether they have reasons or explanations for it or not, it apparently does. Those who avoid or ignore religion, it doesn't.

yup ,it is exacly the way u said.but i think the ones who believe should make their explanations logical.like proving the truths they believe in with science or etc. cause if you do that,it really makes sense.and you can do it as well. just a bit of research would do it.but without searching it ,with only seeing the ones who are understanding what religion means in a way which people capture their lifes ; you cannot see logic. bla bla bla ,everyone should believe in the thing what they believe in,logical or not logical.it is someones choice so we cant critize the religions i guess that much. just believe in the thing u believe :lock:

ghassassin

02-11-2008, 07:04 PM

Believing in illogical things is called foolishness, to be precise. Specify it if you can or just accept the bitter fact that all you know is nothing. Science is accepted and followed on logical grounds, btw. Excluding those "certain" circumstances where exceptions define every step, science is based on well proven and logical facts, unlike religion (generally).

Tyrrel87

02-11-2008, 07:53 PM

Yeah, but it seems to me that it's nonsense needs logical arguments to believe in religion:if not, where is faith? I mean: if you trust in a god you think is hidden (like pascal said about cristian god), who is perfect and if we can't understand his choise, cause our mind isn't able to, cause we're not gods, but human, how can you explain him throught logic?It doesen't make sense...

ghassassin

02-11-2008, 08:01 PM

If such a thing exists, there exists a logic or a reason or an explanation. Faith is another way, the safer one, to cover up superstition. Thats my opinion, of course. I don't really give a damn about Pascal or Pope or whatever.

REIRA~

02-11-2008, 09:09 PM

the important thing is having a belief for something to survive in life and than you can have enough energy for living~

Tyrrel87

02-11-2008, 09:22 PM

the important thing is having a belief for something to survive in life and than you can have enough energy for living~

This sucks...The worst reason to believe in god is desperation...

REIRA~

02-12-2008, 02:47 PM

sucks or not.most of the people believe in buddha so they want to believe in something. dont you think it really sucks as well?
and as a matter of fact the only beliefe is not for god.It can be other things than religion ,that was the thing i was trying to say.And I think there really are religions but if people wouldnt have a habit to believe in something, religions would be useless.most of them avoid people to do wrong things but people sometimes just understand them in the wrong way that it seems that all this religion stuff is crap. But if you take the goodies about being a gppd person and questioning your existence,i guess it makes sense.but the expression 'makes sense' is also changes person to person so in this treat, i dont think anything would be solved as it is something which cant be solved until the very last minute of this living earth comes-___-

ghassassin

02-12-2008, 03:02 PM

Buddhists don't "believe" in Buddha, but his teachings.

If you want to follow the "good and righteous and moral" path, you can do it on your own, if you want to. Their is no as such, specified need of religion for that purpose.

REIRA~

02-12-2008, 03:14 PM

But they are praying for Buddha , a 'mortal' in my eyes but he can be a phrophet or as i said before ,someone like 'mevlana'.... his teaches are great ,i absolutley like them and would want to study them deeply but that is not a religion in my point of view.
but as i said earlier ,we cant solve anything.It actually must be the deepest subjct ever to discuss. And ,you can do it your way,like anyone care....... -____-

Sniper

02-12-2008, 03:28 PM

Buddha is not a god. He's a mortal who managed to reach Nirvana. Buddhism doesn't really have a god.

That said, people can be good, moral people without having religion. Religion just adds bureaucracy and rules to being good.

scoop

02-12-2008, 05:38 PM

well, every religion has some parts in their "instruction manual" that never makes sense. if you follow the "instructions" blindly, its well and good, the moment you start questioning them, you get caught in the "quick sand"(you can never come out).
the religion which teaches spirituality more than unnecessary rituals, practices, "co called instructions to reach God", is the religion which makes the most sense.
i haven't found one yet.
but i do believe in God.being spiritual is faaarrr better than being religious.

Vermillius

02-14-2008, 12:37 AM

Ziet

02-14-2008, 01:07 AM

Religion is not needed for society, but people need hope to strive for until the end. All people are self-interested about their own survival. Religion separates everyone and begins undermine the value of the human mind.

Isaiah

02-14-2008, 02:06 PM

I shall admit, I am an atheist, and when it comes to this type of situation, of which one makes sense... I'd have to be honest, NONE of them do..

Buddhist's believe in teh great being Buddha, and several other gods, as do Hindus, excluding teh Buddha part..

Catholics, Jewish, and Christians believe in a great being known as "God", but honestly, I see no point.

Rather than believing in many things and following all of these things, I decided to go my own way and believe in myself. I have yet to believe the big bang theory, thinking it's only coinsidence that everything was placed in such a way that we came to be.

Tis my opinions..

EightySix

02-14-2008, 02:10 PM

ghassassin

02-14-2008, 02:13 PM

Find me a religion that doesnt say the others are bad and wrong, and i'll say its the one that makes most sense because religion is a belief not a way of life therefore to end up hating another religion for being another religion just doesn't make sense to me

Right now, you don't make sense to me.
Or if you think you do, then well, never heard of a religion which preaches hatred.

EightySix

02-14-2008, 02:25 PM

Well Catholicism preaches that all non Catholics that do not repent in time will end up in Hell. I think that is condemning non catholics.
As for the Islam religion, you are not allowed to switch religions once you become Islam or if you were born muslim, you are looked down upon in a Islamic country if you switch to a different religion.
I figure thats wrong to confine someone within a religion. Plus i didnt say hatred. No religion says kill the believers of other religions..thats hatred.. im talking about religions which preaches that the other religion's teachings are wrong.

Tekkaman Saber

02-14-2008, 02:28 PM

Actually after vatican 2 the catholic church is alot more open they accept that the jew's have a covenant with god and that good non catholics also have a chance getting into heaven.
Just as bad catholics will not be allowed in.

ghassassin

02-14-2008, 02:35 PM

As for the Islam religion, you are not allowed to switch religions once you become Islam or if you were born muslim, you are looked down upon in a Islamic country if you switch to a different religion.
I figure thats wrong to confine someone within a religion.

Presumably you aren't Islamic (nor am I). Islam doesn't teach such thing. It teaches you to show loyalty to your religion in a healthy way. They are looked down upon after switching sides, by the people and not the religion in any manner. Of course, who wouldn't get mad if his wife were to live with a different guy?

EightySix

02-14-2008, 02:44 PM

Yes but i lived in an Islamic country before and no Muslim men are allowed to switch religions. When a chinese man or woman or any other race married a Muslim woman or man, he or she had to convert to the Muslim religion...no opposition to the conversion or else the marriage will not happen. I dont think thats a healthy way to show loyalty to religion.

REIRA~

02-14-2008, 06:38 PM

I'm already living in Turkey and you know,for people who understand the meaning of religion , it doesnt matter if the person he or she is marrying is a muslim or not. but at least the one who will share a life with you,shouldt deny god's existence.you can't just critize being a muslim with living in the countries that doesnt know what being a muslim is anyway. So for me and for lots of other muslims,i dont care which religion you actually believe in. i think denying god's existence is the main thing.I can marry and asian ,eouropean,american or whatever.It really doesnt bother me at all~
I am just saying this for marriage of course,i have lots of good friends who dont believe in god but people are people XD sooooo those muslims who discriminate other people by judging them with their beliefs ,i think they are doing it wrong~

Pansori

02-21-2008, 02:15 AM

Atheism is the most logical relgion. It's a religion that asserts God does not exist because it can't be proven that God exist. It makes more sense than any of the rest of them. It's just that most Atheists don't believe Atheism is a religion, which is a bit ridiculous.

It's not a religion. It's a philosophy. Atheism doesn't even begin to fit the criteria of 'religion'.

BTW, you're confusing agnosticism with atheism.

Sniper

02-21-2008, 04:02 AM

Atheism is the absence of any religion, not a religion itself. Atheists believe that god doesn't exist and that there is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no soul, nothing at all. When you die, that's it. Science can find the truth, religion is fake.

Kylor

02-21-2008, 06:05 AM

Trick question. The entire concept of religion makes no sense at all. Therefore, all religions make an equal amount of sense.

Eazy-E

02-21-2008, 07:48 PM

I don't think any religion makes sense. It's all in the eye of the beholder. You may think your religion defines your purpose, but what do you know? There's someone around the bend saying your wrong.All religions have something in common, a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims. In essence it depends on your background,history,personal and mystic experiences,tradition, etc. What you believe in is part of your journey through life. Youdecide what you believe in and only youcan make sense of it.

Drunkenvalley

02-25-2008, 04:11 PM

Y' know, I'm such a lazy bastard I neither deny god or accept the sucker. >_>

What I HAVE decided on is that if there is a god, he's not one that we've written fancy words of and all that. Heck, have you ever tried being god in those strategy games? If I was god humanity would be my target practice.

...Wait a minute...

eternalsnow08

02-25-2008, 09:20 PM

i am a Christian. at one point, i stopped believing cause of my parents divorce but got back on track when i started to go to a new church and got awesome friends. i do believe in most of the things that Christians do but don't agree with they way acted when the Harry Potter books first came out. i am always going to be a Christian and i don't want to change cause i grew up in a Christian family.

Monkey D Luffy

02-27-2008, 09:45 AM

I'm a Christian but I think Buddhism is the religion that makes the most sense because Buddha exists unlike God.
Anyway I'm an atheist.

statcat

02-27-2008, 06:14 PM

I'm a Christian but I think Buddhism is the religion that makes the most sense because Buddha exists unlike God.
Anyway I'm an atheist.
how are you christian and atheist?

Firedawn

02-27-2008, 07:35 PM

QUOTE=statcat;312125]how are you christian and atheist?[/QUOTE]

He meant that he was born as a Christian but he is an atheist.

Not so hard to understand Imo.

Beside IMO this is just the way I see it So I don't to get "attacked" because of this. But Christianity dose not make sense at all (im Jewish but more to the Agnosticism and little to the atheist part. )

And why I see it that way. Because of Jesus ... for me as a Jewish and for you as a Christian Muslim... that believe that god is universal right not materialistic...and by accepting that jesus was the son of god or god himself that just go and say that god is materialistic being. and that go against the belief that god is universal being.

Now Im not saying the Judaism is right or make the most sence I just say why Christianity

Drunkenvalley

02-27-2008, 08:24 PM

I just gotta give it to you.. If there was one religion in the whole world, just one, it'd be a heck lot easier to actually trust in the thought that there is any such being as God.

So.. yeah. The whole thing about God kind of died for me when I heard that there were TONS of religions going about, none of them following the exact same god, nor having the same "bible", etc etc etc.

You might compare it to having one carton of milk that you've always stuck to. Then suddenly it branches off into three variations, none of them being the exact same as the earlier one. Then three more. It just gets bewildering.

Sniper

02-28-2008, 01:35 AM

I agree there. The fact that there are so many different religions with people saying they know it's the absolute truth makes it harder to believe any of them. Poweraid is better than Gatoraid. That's all there is to it. Don't question it, it just is! I'm right, you're not!

EmoEmu

02-28-2008, 07:30 PM

I never needed religion or God to make sense, i just wanted to believe in it. Just knowing and believing was enough, you know what i mean?
I believe in God but i view music to be my religion, does that make me a minority? as if that really matters.

REIRA~

02-28-2008, 07:57 PM

And why I see it that way. Because of Jesus ... for me as a Jewish and for you as a Christian Muslim... that believe that god is universal right not materialistic...and by accepting that jesus was the son of god or god himself that just go and say that god is materialistic being. and that go against the belief that god is universal being.

I actually agree with you at this part because in my point of view,christians think that it is better to communicate with jesus.I'm really confused about the way they think and i think you should pray to directly god not to jesus.he is just closer to you even from your carotid so he can hear you anytime,anywhere,even when u are not praying he knows every single person from inside their hearts and he doesnt need jesus to communicate with the ones he created,he was a phrophet to tell people what was the right thing to do .he is a mortal after all and i think him being gods son doesnt make sense too.God never gave birth or never been born. at least,this is my belief-____-But if there is someone who is willing to explain their way of thinking ,i'll be thrilled to hear your thoughts so i really dont know what is the point of thinking that way :confused:

but at the very end of this discussion,who am i to judge others beliefs:confused::confused:
So i wont say more about any other religion making sense or not but i am relieved that Firedawn got to the point right away before me :eek:
I know some about bible and torah and also buddha ;inside all of them there is humanity .the message they give is indeed simple and the same. Be useful for others,dont trouble anyone or dont harm them. dont push others limits and be polite to everyone or anything living and breathing.show respect and also benignity to others.help the ones who are in need.the meaning of religion must be just this simple i think~
but people are getting confused when they learn more and more about religion and think that it is troublesome~
It cant be helped in todays world i guess...

ghassassin

02-28-2008, 10:18 PM

Be useful for others,dont trouble anyone or dont harm them. dont push others limits and be polite to everyone or anything living and breathing.show respect and also benignity to others.help the ones who are in need.

Not sure about Bible and Torah, but Buddha never said any of those things.

On a side note, Buddha was selfish, yes he was. None of Buddha's teachings produced another Buddha. Why? Because Buddha only wrote or preached everything he learned before enlightenment. Buddhism, therefore, is not that big or divine of a deal, in my opinion.

Evan On Rye

02-29-2008, 04:27 AM

I'm really going to just say that none of the religions make any sense, at least to me. I mean the stories about so and so, how everything was created and such. It's all a bunch of stories, that do little more then show how important morals are, or teach a lesson of some sort. I mean, I'm not going to say people are idiots for believing it, because I mean everyone thinks what they want and I have no problem with it, but I'm not going to believe in any religion created by man to be used for personal vices. I mean, if God wanted to talk to me He/She/ it would communicate with me personally, not through some half assed third wheel like a book ,or so called "prophets".

What's worse is most people don't even know about half the atrocity's committed on the behalf of their own religion. Some don't even know the history and put blind faith into the cause. So call me Agnostic, because that's the closest thing to me I can think of by definition of religious following.

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 05:54 PM

of all the major religions most revolve around works, being religious, with strict guide lines on how to live life. and all of the major prophets, teachers, guru, claimed that they not be worshiped but that people would look to their teachings for guidance. also in some religions, their main texts have been edited over time: , or been proven false: the Koran (changed from origional ancient manuscripts) the Mormon Bible, The Pearl of great Price, (both proven wrong when compaired to older mormon texts, and the origional Egyptian text used for the Pearl of Great Price)

christianity sets itself apart from others in several ways. there are only 12 rules by which to live by. (the 10 commandments, and the 2 from the new testament), but Heaven only comes
thru faith, beleiving that Jesus is God, and that he is the only way to heaven. only Jesus claimed to be God in human form (and also the only one to be raised from the dead, then ascend into heaven after 40 days), and so that he could show his love for us, he died so that we might get to heaven thru his sacrafice. also the bible has been proven correct and unchanged on may different occasions. for example the dead sea scrolls were from the 2nd century BC and they line up almost exactly when compaired to the modern Bible (excluding the new testamnet which wasn't written until 200-300 years later) also the mass exodus of the Isrealites from Egypt by crossing thru the Red Sea was proven when a portion of the Red Sea was found that was littered with Egyptian chariots that have been there for nearly 3-5 thousand years. also the bible points out many scientific facts that werent discovered or proven until the past 700 years.

so that's my argument for christianity

Firedawn

03-02-2008, 07:49 PM

Not sure about Bible and Torah, but Buddha never said any of those things.

On a side note, Buddha was selfish, yes he was. None of Buddha's teachings produced another Buddha. Why? Because Buddha only wrote or preached everything he learned before enlightenment. Buddhism, therefore, is not that big or divine of a deal, in my opinion.

for your information the Torah and the bible do say those things

------------------------------------------------------------

christianity sets itself apart from others in several ways. there are only 12 rules by which to live by. (the 10 commandments, and the 2 from the new testament), but Heaven only comes
thru faith, beleiving that Jesus is God, and that he is the only way to heaven. only Jesus claimed to be God in human form (and also the only one to be raised from the dead, then ascend into heaven after 40 days), and so that he could show his love for us, he died so that we might get to heaven thru his sacrafice. also the bible has been proven correct and unchanged on may different occasions. for example the dead sea scrolls were from the 2nd century BC and they line up almost exactly when compaired to the modern Bible (excluding the new testamnet which wasn't written until 200-300 years later) also the mass exodus of the Isrealites from Egypt by crossing thru the Red Sea was proven when a portion of the Red Sea was found that was littered with Egyptian chariots that have been there for nearly 3-5 thousand years. also the bible points out many scientific facts that werent discovered or proven until the past 700 years.

so that's my argument for christianity

See that what I meant by "god is universal being right not materialistic...and by accepting that jesus was the son of god or god himself that just go and say that god is materialistic being. and that go against the belief that god is universal being."

There you say it now that jesus was the son of god or god himself and that just not right.
there was a prophet in the bible that raised from the dead a kid of a woman but he did it with gos power not his own he needed to pray and pray for that to happened
By the bible we are all god children.

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 08:25 PM

Firedawn

03-02-2008, 08:42 PM

Im really sorry to say it but it is just don't make sense at all and by going and saying that he is god himself... it's just not right.

second- Elijah the prophet or you might know him as Saint Elias...is "alive" ny the bible it say that he joind god and by the story it say that evry passover he come back to do stuff

and about God has three personalites or identities, but he is still one God
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

and once again it goes and say that you can touch god with is absurd god is evrything but you can't touch it or make statue of his image... even the Temple in Jerusalem or Holy Temple. was just a building god was ot inside that he was evreywhere.

Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaqi or Rashi said something really smart. he said that he can not tell what god is he can tell what god is not...

mutley

03-02-2008, 08:49 PM

Comparing different religions is just stupid. In the end this only leads to infighting between religions and in a world where... well a minority of the new modern generation willingly believes in God or religion, this is like tearing yourself apart from within when you should expand to the young minds.

The close to perfect global religion would be a blend between Buddhism and Christianity I think. Because Christianitys laws of love and care and Buddhisms seek towards inner peace and understanding, could really form something great together. But I guess different people need different religions right? Thinking of a single global religion is just an utopia :(. And excluding other religions would also be wrong.
But really, I think God wouldn't have wanted us to create different religions, make different idols and icons of him, and then fight over whos right. We're his children right, shouldnt we agree on something that suits everyone, so that we may finally please Him? But then again, who knows what God wants.

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 09:10 PM

mutley

03-02-2008, 09:29 PM

Neji look m8 I think youre following the right thread here. Well Im not here to tell people what is right or wrong, definetely not in religions, but you said it yourself. "What is God and what isn't he?" right?

This means that God could be anything. One can go so far as telling that every person has his own image of what God is, so every one has a personal God. Therefore the fact that different religions claim to be "the only true religion" and "to know the true face of God" is just absurd. Because in the end for every human, God is something else. None knows what God really is. And there are different people, who see Him in different ways, but one can't tell who is right or wrong, because everyone thinks he is taking the right path to his "own" God.

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 09:56 PM

the reason i asked it was because of firedawn's quote of a rabbi. i was asking him what he though God is and isn't.

and ur right, God is different for each person, but there is still only one God and one path. after the end of the world we will all be judged be God on how we lived our lives, as well as weather or not we accepted Christ as the Savior. If we were kind to others, God will treat us kindly, if we were harsh toward others, He will be harsh toward us... and the list continues on...
and just because we can't know what God is, doesnt mean we can't get to know who he is.
but we are not our own gods (though we consider ourselves as such at times), and we cannot become gods. something that is finite cannot become infinite.

Kiwichanroxu

03-02-2008, 10:19 PM

Dude, I think Catholics are the most hard-core believers ot there. Just look @ the Spanish Inquisition. Orthodox are pretty lax (like moi). Chill

Greg

03-02-2008, 10:22 PM

where does that teaching come from? i've never heard the teaching that the prophet Elija comes back every passover. what "stuff" does he do? beside Elija never actualy died, he was taken up by God into heaven.
and ur right, we cant make a statue in his image for several doctrinal reasons. and we cant touch God, but that doesnt mean that he can't appear to us or touch us in which ever way he chooses, even if it is in the form of a man.
what is God and what isn't he?

Elijah receives the fifth cup at a passover seder.
Elijah’s Cup (koso shel Eliyahu)

In the Talmudic literature, Elijah would visit rabbis to help solve particularly difficult legal problems. Malachi had cited Elijah as the harbinger of the eschaton. Thus, when confronted with reconciling impossibly conflicting laws or rituals, the rabbis would set aside any decision “until Elijah comes.”[32] One such decision was whether the Passover seder required four or five cups of wine.

Each serving of wine corresponds to "four expressions of redemption" in Exodus:

"I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will deliver you from their bondage, and I will redeem you with an out-stretched arm and with great acts of judgment, and I will take you for my people, and I will be your God; and you shall know that I am the Lord your God, who has brought you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians" (Exodus 6:6-7).

The next verse, "And I will bring you into the land which I swore to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; I will give it to you for a possession. I am the Lord" (Exodus 6:8), was not fulfilled until the generation after that of the passover story. Since the rabbis could not resolve the question of whether or not this verse was a part of the Passover celebration (thus deserving of another serving of wine), a cup was left for the arrival of Elijah. In practice, the fifth cup has come to be seen as a celebration of future redemption. Today, a place is reserved at the seder table and a cup of wine is placed there for Elijah. During the seder, the door of the house is opened and Elijah is invited in. Traditionally, the cup is viewed as Elijah’s and is used for no other purpose.[33][34]

By the way, to whomever who said a blend of buddhism and christianity would be the perfect religion since they're so peaceful, look at the Crusades....

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 10:41 PM

ya know, now that i think about it, this has become nothing more than an argument of the doctinal differences between religions. but hey it's a debate... it's not about nodding heads to what ever someone says.
and besides the doncrinal issues arent what gets a person into heaven or wherever, but we tend to get so worked up over stupid stuff like this we loose track of the point of the discussion,
"which religion makes the most sence?"
and it all boils down to learning what each religion has to offer, and making a decision

no hard feeling

oh and about the crusades, that was Islam, not Buddism

mutley

03-02-2008, 10:43 PM

The Crusades? Come on.
The Crusaders, who were mostly greedy knights, even greedier merceneries and poor peasants and adventurers who hoped for a new start in a new land, used Christiannity as an excuse to defend their crimes. This theory is widely accepted. I mean exterminating an entire city sounds better if youre "liberating it in the name of God and quenching it from unholyness". Then later, they could qustify their rule of a completely different country by saying that they were "protecting the Holy Throne" or something.

And its easy to manipulate a poor, lost mind by telling him that he can be forgiven and accepted if he joins the Crusades and bashes some skulls in the name of God. Really pathetic.... Religion always has been used to manipulate and to cover up crimes. That doesnt mean that its the Religion who is wrong.

I mean if you use a blanket to cover up a corpse, its not the blankets fault right?

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 10:56 PM

very true though. the crusaders killed everyone and everything living there, jews and musilms alike. they took anything they could and sent it back to the Europe as gifts for the Catholic church. they even enlisted children to fight, most of which died on the journey there.

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 11:06 PM

what do you mean i need a history lesson? buddism is an eastern Asian religion, and the crusades took place in the middle east to take back Jerusalem from the Ottoman Empire, whose major religion was Islam, not Buddism. they also fought against pagan slavs, russian and greek orthodox christians, hussites, and mongols.

Tekkaman Saber

03-02-2008, 11:45 PM

The crusades was less to do with religion it was more to do with power, the popes wanted to increase their sphere of influence and they used reclaiming jerusalem and conquering heathens as a perfect excuse.

Greg

03-02-2008, 11:46 PM

I was referring to Christianity in that example. Christianity has fought plenty of wars and has committed plenty of violence in the name of religion.

And who called for the crusades? The pope. "The greatest light on earth."

There is no such thing as a truly peaceful religion.... and if there was, Christianity isn't one.

Neji2112

03-02-2008, 11:50 PM

the probelm isnt the religion, it's the people within the religion that screw things up

cornpopsicle

03-02-2008, 11:50 PM

If a truly logical belief system had to be chosen, it would actually be Agnosticism. This is because the existence or the lack thereof for a superior being, IE a God, cannot be proven through logical methods. Theists argue that there is no proof that a God does not exists, whereas atheist say that there is no proof that God does exists. There have been various thoughts upon varios proofs, but thus far, they have been successfully countered. Therefore, since there is a lack of logical evidence for the existence of a God, or lack of one, the only logical conclusion is that, "We don't know.

Neji2112

03-03-2008, 12:08 AM

REIRA~

03-03-2008, 02:43 PM

God came in the form of man Jesus but he was still God. he was 100% god and 100% man. he isn't limited to just being a spiritual being. God can and does exist both within and out side of the world that we can see and understand. he isn't limited by anything or any one. so it doesnt go against it. Many asked Jesus if he was God and he responded affermatively. he then asked peter who Peter thought jesus was, and he replied by saying the that Jesus is the Son of God, the savior of the world, ect

when i was talking about Jesus being the only one raised from the dead, i was speaking in comparison to the other great prophets of all the religions, all of which are still in their graves.
and Jesus raised several people from the dead himself, yet he did not pray to God when he raised them, because he is God himself. he just told them to wake up, or come forth, and they did so.

God has three personalites or identities, but he is still one God
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

I strictly dont agree you with this:eek:
because jesus and mohammed and moses and all the other phrophets were %100 humans and were taking their orders from GOD :eek:
You cant possibly say that he was god or anything.look I'm a muslim and i dont believe that hz. mohammed was GOD itself...because he told us that he is just a mortal who obeys gods order and tries to make people believe in God and follow his way.And jesus himself told when he was just a baby to others that he was a human that god created as a phrophet without a father and you should believe that he has no father if you can believe that Adam and Eve were created with no human involved,from soil we can say....

but it is true that God is just everywhere you look and everything ....
they all are God's creation but they cant be GOD itself ...
He just has ONE personalities;it is not involved father ,son ,holy spirit .
God is the one who created anything and that just is all-____-
He never gave birth nor born ........understanding GOD is extremely not simple but understanding this should be i think-___- And in the real bible(I mean most us know that some parts had been changed during the ceremonies at Ayasofia) i dont think that there was such a thing as God And Son....

But it is true that in a way all of us are God's children but that just is symbolic i guess~

But at least i got my answer Neji, thnx anyway :thumbup:

I'm sorry if the things i wrote down was not a christians' way of thinking but no offense okey?? as it is actually open in discussion right?:)

Drunkenvalley

03-03-2008, 03:05 PM

there's plenty of evidence for God. things are too many compex things for thing just to have happened by random chance. even cells, small as they are, are very complex, and it takes billions upon billions of cells to make just one human, and each cell has a specific purpose. each disease has a natural cure even cancers. animals breather out CO2 and Plants turn it back and make food for itself and other beings as well. all the planets and the moon serve to protect earth from asteroids, and meteors. the earth in in a perfect position from the Sun not too cold, not too hot. water sustains all life, evaporation serves as a means to water the earth and allow plants to grow. on an even larger scale each galaxy is made up of trillions of stars ,and there are an infinite amout of galaxies out there, each with their own stars and planets. and it's still expanding! the Eagle nebula constantly gives birth to new stars. everything has a puropse even if we dont always see it, and there is no way this could ever happen just by chance, it had to be created by an inteligent disigner, i.e. God.

These complex things didn't happen overnight, though...

Ever heard the word evolution? Adapting? This planet's been running rather smoothly for.. how many million years by now? It's not impossible that one reason the dinosaurs were dying suddenly was a sudden change in environment due to the constant adaption of everything material.

Now, I'm not to say "God doesn't exist", but religion has always been about one thing: Explaining the impossible.

Disagree with me? Well, you might, but you do disagree with how every other religion explains things as well, and you might laugh at how various cultures describe things, such as our more "escimo" civilization further north, where they believe the Bear carries the sun, and that during the winter it drops the sun to hibernate.

Before, there were hardly any difference between "religion" and "science", which would explain why Newton actually researched when the day of doom would arrive. (He scribbled down a year: 2060. That's it. Now believe in it or not, I don't care. I don't.)

So basically.. If you really want to know what I believe, I believe that there's a chance a higher being of existence exists.. But I don't believe it to be a highly intelligent, sentient being, seeing as this planet hasn't fallen victim to a meteor rain. Yet.

Beyond that, I think that there are just things that we are still going to have to research further into before we find an actual & sensible reasoning for many things that cannot be explained today.

ghassassin

03-03-2008, 03:45 PM

mutley

03-03-2008, 06:33 PM

It is true that we cannot prove that God excists. Any kind of "wonder" like regneration or telecenesis could just be attributed to the hightenned spiritual power of a single human. Like with placebo you know, when people are given sugar pills, but cure their cancer just because of their belief that they are being cured.

We cannot prove that God created the world. It could just have happened by chance, or it is part of an eternal cycle, where everything develops, like evolution and science.

Still I dont see the point in not believing in something that is more perfect than us. To believe that there is a better place than this world. Well this world isnt bad, but it could be alot better :D. Why not pray to this better thing or place and hope that you one day will be part of it, by trying to improve yourself in whatever way? That is just logical right, I mean this life can't be the final step of development. There is no such thing as "a final step" you can always climb upwards. Death can not just make all of your feelings, thoughts and ideas disappear, somewhere, somehow, they must live on.

xyzabc2

03-03-2008, 06:47 PM

the Koran (changed from origional ancient manuscripts)

would you care to substantiate that claim?

there are actually many claims you have made in your posts that are very much debatable, though i appreciate that this is said out of zeal for your religion. for now though id appreciate a justification of the above statement if you are able to provide one.

Drunkenvalley

03-03-2008, 08:04 PM

Ok.. so a horrifying thought struck me.

If we go by what the bible says about Eden, we can conlude a few things..
As Eva was made by God *AND* Adam, together, that makes God homosexual, seeing as he is always depicted as a male, and it most likely makes Adam closet-gay.
Being the "product" of Adam and God, it basically makes Eva the daughter of Adam. So there you have the first pedophile as well as incestual father to have appeared.
If any of the above ever happened... let's take logic to heart: We'd be sitting on our rear and drooling non-stop out of sheer stupidity and retardation after 19897 generations of inbreeding.