Claymore XIII

[x04ty29er]

Continue Discussion here.

Last 3 posts.

Has 75 come out yet?

Aye mate. Colt Ruger was right on the bagpipes that Raki stay human as there's no human left ta support. Tis a crime mates that us humans have to look like yer Sunday brunch, and tis looking better if Raki fights as a human.

I wouldn't put much stock in it mates because the lad is simply as smart as a goat. Maybe in the 7 years, the best we could hope for the chap is that his role is be a general in Isley's army but from me observations that he lost his last 13 and 11 boys on their march towards Riful and the org.

Yep. If Raki were a good human swordsman, it would give ordinary humans a strong ray of hope. But at the same time, not being a Claymore means he can't go much farther in terms of strength if he's near his physical limits, as he has no yoki to amplify this. And his overall ignorance doesn't help at all. And you are correct, Isley has no more minions to his army. The 24 Claymores in the North destroyed most of them, with the rest were killed by Alicia and Beth. Those who went West met Riful and were annihilated by her.

[SilentBuddhist]

Shoot, ya beat me to it...I'll delete my thread fast.

[Glasgow Celtic]

Oy! What happened to the other forum, mates?

I just remembered awhile go' that what was the reason why Riful asked that Clare and Galatea join her in her merry adventure against isley? Riful's quote ta Clare was "that's where you come in,a claymore who excels in reading yoma, in other words, a warrior who can manipulate yoma, even for a little while."

Clare couldn't manipulate yoki, or could she? Me knows galatea can but Clare? She could read it, but methinks Riful was confusing the lass for Galatea.

[SilentBuddhist]

Oy! What happened to the other forum, mates?

I just remembered awhile go' that what was the reason why Riful asked that Clare and Galatea join her in her merry adventure against isley? Riful's quote ta Clare was "that's where you come in,a claymore who excels in reading yoma, in other words, a warrior who can manipulate yoma, even for a little while."

Clare couldn't manipulate yoki, or could she? Me knows galatea can but Clare? She could read it, but methinks Riful was confusing the lass for Galatea.
This happens once we hit the 20th page on the thread...the mods close it, and start a new thread that's a continuation of the previous thread.

On to your question, Clare could manipulate yoki, though not as well as Galatea. Remember how Jean didn't awaken? Clare was partially responsible for it.

[Glasgow Celtic]

Ah, I forgot that mate. (slaps me noggin) I remember Clare did that to Jean. So for every 20 pages, it goes to a new forum. Interesting.

And what Riful's use for those 2 damsels in regards ta defeating that nancy boy Isley?

[SilentBuddhist]

Ah, I forgot that mate. (slaps me noggin) I remember Clare did that to Jean. So for every 20 pages, it goes to a new forum. Interesting.

And what Riful's use for those 2 damsels in regards ta defeating that nancy boy Isley?
They keep the limit to 20 pages to keep things organized.

I'm not sure if she ever answered that yet...although, she did say she came across something interesting, and she needed Claymores who excelled at reading/controlling yoki. I think that she herself is not very good at reading yoki unless it's close to her, or it's very noticeable. That said, she probably isn't any good at controlling yoki either.

[Glasgow Celtic]

Dont ye think mate that maybe Riful needs those 2 lassies ta stop and confuse Priscilla because it would be a disadvantage clearly if Duff was ta singlehandedly stop Priscilla?
methinks that one on one, Riful vs Isley: Riful could win. Im not saying that the girlie will win. Im saying if no one interferes, Riful could win, but judging by what Isley did to Luciela, that is as remote as me dating Halle Berry.

[SilentBuddhist]

Dont ye think mate that maybe Riful needs those 2 lassies ta stop and confuse Priscilla because it would be a disadvantage clearly if Duff was ta singlehandedly stop Priscilla?
methinks that one on one, Riful vs Isley: Riful could win. Im not saying that the girlie will win. Im saying if no one interferes, Riful could win, but judging by what Isley did to Luciela, that is as remote as me dating Halle Berry.
Nothing's impossible in the Claymore world...but Luciela had so little page time we never really had much of a clue where she stood among the Abyssals.

In terms of power Priscilla is far better than Duff. Even if Clare and Galatea and Duff were to join forces against her the chances of them winning would be almost zero. Furthermore, it wouldn't explain the need to have someone who had the ability to manipulate yoki, unless the plan was to have the two of them combine their manipulation abilities against Priscilla while Duff does the fighting. However, given that Priscilla is stronger than Isley, even Clare and Galatea would find that extremely difficult to manage.

[Glasgow Celtic]

Nothing's impossible in the Claymore world...but Luciela had so little page time we never really had much of a clue where she stood among the Abyssals.

In terms of power Priscilla is far better than Duff. Even if Clare and Galatea and Duff were to join forces against her the chances of them winning would be almost zero. Furthermore, it wouldn't explain the need to have someone who had the ability to manipulate yoki, unless the plan was to have the two of them combine their manipulation abilities against Priscilla while Duff does the fighting. However, given that Priscilla is stronger than Isley, even Clare and Galatea would find that extremely difficult to manage.

So what is the purpose of those 2, in regards ta Riful's plan? If the 2 of them aren't meant ta distract Priscilla, what then is their purpose? Riful wants them alive, cause' she said so. Then maybe to use their yoki manipulation against Isley so he won't transform?

[SilentBuddhist]

As far as I know, it's for the "something interesting" she came across. The thing is, she never answered or said what it was, and it could be she found something else entirely, and it requires the use of Claymores with yoki manipulation.

It sure is lonely in the forums at this time...well at least I've got Gloscow Celtic here for company, 'till everyone else shows up.:)

[Hynavian]

As far as I know, it's for the "something interesting" she came across. The thing is, she never answered or said what it was, and it could be she found something else entirely, and it requires the use of Claymores with yoki manipulation.

It sure is lonely in the forums at this time...well at least I've got Gloscow Celtic here for company, 'till everyone else shows up.:)

Yeah, it's great to see you around when I'm online cause I usual guard the forums solo. And it's cool to see that we have hit a new thread.

It's kind of late to say this but welcome to the forums newbies!

We have to start deciding the Claymore for next week as I'm in the faster time zone and it's already Friday here for me. Any suggestions?

[SilentBuddhist]

Yeah, it's great to see you around when I'm online cause I usual guard the forums solo. And it's cool to see that we have hit a new thread.

It's kind of late to say this but welcome to the forums newbies!

We have to start deciding the Claymore for next week as I'm in the faster time zone and it's already Friday here for me. Any suggestions?
So nice to see you around:)

I'll try to stay up as late as I can, but I'm normally kicked off the computer at around 10 pm here (which is 2-3 hours from now)

Okay, I think the only Claymores we haven't had yet are Raphaela, Luciela, Deneve, Rigardo, Duff and Isley. I'll go with Raph. Anyone else?

[Hynavian]

So nice to see you around:)

I'll try to stay up as late as I can, but I'm normally kicked off the computer at around 10 pm here (which is 2-3 hours from now)

Okay, I think the only female Claymores we haven't done yet are Raphaela, Luciela and Deneve. I'll go with Raph. Anyone else?

I was thinking of Raphaela too. So 2 votes to Raphaela so far. Other possibilities include Deneve, Luciela, Isley, Rigardo, Dulf, Sophia, Noel, Rosemary, Hilda, etc...many more.

Raphaela - 2 votes (SB, Prezzy)

[SilentBuddhist]

I just added Rigardo, Duff and Isley. So many characters...

So two votes for Raphaela: Prezzy and me. Wonder if Prezzo and everyone else will agree...

[Hynavian]

We can psycho the others, I don't mind if Riagrdo gets selected though cause my favourite animal is lion. It's my day off today and I'm working on DB1. Hopefully I can kill it off before next week.

Coming back to the topic where whose skill is faster Page 16 Claymore Thread XII (http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?t=4503&page=16), anyone has something to suggest or to oppose? Cause I'm hoping for some discussions on it as I just decided to take the side of Miria mirages and are waiting for concrete opposition.

[hollywoodlou]

So what is the purpose of those 2, in regards ta Riful's plan? If the 2 of them aren't meant ta distract Priscilla, what then is their purpose? Riful wants them alive, cause' she said so. Then maybe to use their yoki manipulation against Isley so he won't transform?

That's a good question though. What IS the purpose of that satanic child and her plans for the 2 beauts?

Our Scottish friend may be on to something with his incessant points. My guess is to nullify Isley's movements and try to slow him down via those 2's yoki manipulation techniques. Now if Prissy starts to go wild and try to butt into the action, Duff has to sacrifice himself and go head on vs Priscilla even for a little bit.

The final verdict: kill the strongest first (Pris). Either get her away from Isley via divide and conquer, then move in against Isley.

We can psycho the others, I don't mind if Riagrdo gets selected though cause my favourite animal is lion. It's my day off today and I'm working on DB1. Hopefully I can kill it off before next week.

RIGARDO.

[SilentBuddhist]

We can psycho the others, I don't mind if Riagrdo gets selected though cause my favourite animal is lion. It's my day off today and I'm working on DB1. Hopefully I can kill it off before next week.

Coming back to the topic where whose skill is faster Page 16 Claymore Thread XII (http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?t=4503&page=16), anyone has something to suggest or to oppose? Cause I'm hoping for some discussions on it as I just decided to take the side of Miria mirages and are waiting for concrete opposition.
If we ever get Rigardo's week, I'll replace him with a cartoon version of Harry Mason to compromise:eban:

Coming onto your topic, I'd say Clare is the fastest with her Quick Sword, with Flora behind her, then Miria. Clare's Quick Sword was faster than Flora's Windcutter, and Miria's old mirages were faster than that as well. However, Miria's new mirages are slower than they were, for the sake of being able to use them without limits. Nevertheless, if Clare could block Miria's attacks while she used those mirages with just Windcutter, and Quick Sword being faster then Windcutter, then logically Quick Sword is the fastest.

[supremecommander]

That's a good question though. What IS the purpose of that satanic child and her plans for the 2 beauts?

Our Scottish friend may be on to something with his incessant points. My guess is to nullify Isley's movements and try to slow him down via those 2's yoki manipulation techniques. Now if Prissy starts to go wild and try to butt into the action, Duff has to sacrifice himself and go head on vs Priscilla even for a little bit.

The final verdict: kill the strongest first (Pris). Either get her away from Isley via divide and conquer, then move in against Isley.



RIGARDO.

Hell yes, that could be the only solution. Divide and conquer. Get rid of Prissy first then go for the jugular with hair boy. Unfortunately, Prissy is a star and a major character in the series, so this battle could be close near the end when the author decides to hang it up.

Rigardo week it is then, people.

Gome on my "old" Teresa signs. I'll change em to Rigardo next week.

[psychotic]

I like Raphaela. If Rigardo is more than Raphy by Saturday night, then I'll go with Rigardo

[h0tprints]

Possibly far fetched, but maybe Riful wants the Yoki manupulators to interfere with the spirit link between alicia and beth so she can let alicia loose. After all, riful mentioned the only chance of defeating Priscilla woulda been Riful + luciela, and alicia is like luciela 2.0.

[SilentBuddhist]

We don't really know how strong Luciela is...all we know is that she was strong enough to injure Isley before losing the strength to stay in her awakened form. However, we do know that when we first saw (or heard) Alicia in the beginning she was strong enough to do 50% damage to Riful before getting killed, and she's probably even stronger now. So maybe it is possible that Riful wants Alicia as a recruit. But then again, how could Riful convince Alicia to join her when she's obeyed only the organization since she was a child?

[Hynavian]

So the breakdown for the Claymore character for next week....

1) Raphaela (3 votes) - Prezzy, SB, psychotic
2) Rigardo (2 votes) - Prezzo, supremecommander

Any other voters? I'm tempted to change my vote to Rigardo :lol:

[SilentBuddhist]

No no no...I won't change my vote, but I don't want to be alone for Raph!:lol:

[this is sparta!]

Holy cow, haven't been posting for a while and now we're at thread 13? Simply amazing.

Where should I start...I'm voting for Rigardo.

I don't know where to begin to discuss but I'll put in my vote for now, guys. thanks.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Im voting for Rigardo! He's the friendly neigborhood man-eating lion ^-^

[Max Gigolo]

Rigardo. I'll vote Rafaela for next next week but for next week, it's lion boy who got his furry butt kicked by priscilla and clare.

[Hynavian]

So for now, the sexy lion guy is winning....

1) Rigardo (5 votes) - Prezzo, supremecommander, this is sparta!, Tensa Zangetsu, Max Gigolo

2) Raphaela (3 votes) - Prezzy, SB, psychotic

[beakedbard]

I vote Raph cause i've been trying to get her on this for weeksi just kinda spaced out when you were suggesting on the other weeks XD

[xellentxecution]

I'll vote for her sis..Luciela!..Though her awakening is a little...weird..she does look cool normally...'specially for her clothes...

I hope that she would be alive..and that raphaela and her join hands...and umm.......where am i going with this >???

Why do you guys like rigardo????...he killed so many characters...though..sadly he does have the coolest awakening beside clare's...dammnit!

[nhy390]

Ill vote Rigardo

[Hynavian]

1) Rigardo (6 votes) - Prezzo, supremecommander, this is sparta!, Tensa Zangetsu, Max Gigolo, nhy390

2) Raphaela (4 votes) - Prezzy, SB, psychotic, BB

3) Luciela (1 vote) - xellentxecution

----------

Why do you guys like rigardo????...he killed so many characters...though..sadly he does have the coolest awakening beside clare's...dammnit!

In my opinion, he's sexy and lion is my favourite animal. :lol:

[nhy390]

Ricardo is just cool! As Hy said, he is a lion!! One of the best awakened forms we have seen so far, plus incredibly powerful.

I really wish we would get some more background information on the Awakened Beings and the Abyssal Ones. It would be cool to know how they awoke and what their relationships were to other awakened beings that date back to the time they were still Claymore!

[xellentxecution]

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000045/00000059/30-31.jpg
In my opinion, he's sexy and lion is my favourite animal
Yeah..i like them too!

I did this cause some one did it once too!!!!

[nhy390]

That is a well cool pic!!! Nice one! Straight from the Manga?

[SilentBuddhist]

Holy cow, haven't been posting for a while and now we're at thread 13? Simply amazing.

Where should I start...I'm voting for Rigardo.

I don't know where to begin to discuss but I'll put in my vote for now, guys. thanks.

Im voting for Rigardo! He's the friendly neigborhood man-eating lion ^-^

Rigardo. I'll vote Rafaela for next next week but for next week, it's lion boy who got his furry butt kicked by priscilla and clare.

Ill vote Rigardo
Meh...you guys are overly influenced by Prezzo...just like in the Top Model Awards:lol:

[beakedbard]

Meh...you guys are overly influenced by Prezzo...just like in the Top Model Awards:lol:

Totally agree >.> Prezzo ish to influentual we should make it so Prezzo votes after everyone else then it all works out XD nah i joke.

[SilentBuddhist]

Totally agree >.> Prezzo ish to influentual we should make it so Prezzo votes after everyone else then it all works out XD nah i joke.
Maybe in situations like this we ought to rebel as much as possible XD

[beakedbard]

Prezzo ain't my leader ^^ so technically i wouldn't be rebelling.

[xellentxecution]

That is a well cool pic!!! Nice one! Straight from the Manga?
Yup...one of my favourite!
Meh...you guys are overly influenced by Prezzo...just like in the Top Model Awards

Hmm..thats a good thing..right?


Maybe in situations like this we ought to rebel as much as possible XD

That'll be fun!...lets do that against everybody!

[SilentBuddhist]

Hmm..thats a good thing..right?
Prezzo just had to put in that Cynthia pic that time...and that's when people started to vote for her...too much influence. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, right!? :lol:

[Glasgow Celtic]

Aye mates! Rigardo's me choice for Claymore of the week as well.

[beakedbard]

Damnit Raph should be the one >.>

[SilentBuddhist]

Grr...I'm not changing my vote no matter what...

Raphaela! Someone vote Raphaela! :lol:

[Tank]

this thread sure moves fast...
Anyway my vote is for Rafaela..
I was going to vote for Rigardo until i saw him chopped to pieces (again) xD
Btw what is the current topic (if there is any)?

[SilentBuddhist]

this thread sure moves fast...
Anyway my vote is for Rafaela..
I was going to vote for Rigardo until i saw him chopped to pieces (again) xD
Btw what is the current topic (if there is any)?

Gotta love that picture...:D

So the breakdown for the votes is:

Rigardo- 8(Prezzo,SC, MG, nhy390, GC, sparta, TZ, CRG)

Raphaela- 5(SB, Prezzy, Psychotic, BB, Tank)

Luciela- 1(xcellentxecution)

I think the topic at hand is what Prezzy brought up: which technique is the fastest: Miria's mirages, Flora's Windcutter, or Clare's Quick Sword?

[beakedbard]

Mirias mirages cause they're a quick burst of energy that seems to use up a hell of alot more energy than the speed sword techniques well thats how it should be anyway.

[SilentBuddhist]

But you know, Miria's new mirages are a bit slower, for the sake of being able to use them again and again. I said Clare's Quick Sword because it's faster than Windcutter, and Windcutter could block Miria's attacks while she was using those mirages.

[ColtRugerGlock]

Gotta love that picture...:D

So the breakdown for the votes is:

Rigardo- 7(Prezzo,SC, MG, nhy390, GC, sparta, TZ)

Raphaela- 5(SB, Prezzy, Psychotic, BB, Tank)

Luciela- 1(xcellentxecution)

I think the topic at hand is what Prezzy brought up: which technique is the fastest: Miria's mirages, Flora's Windcutter, or Clare's Quick Sword?

I think the question should've been re=phrased: fastest or effective?

Based on the swiftness of technique, I would have to go with Irene's (or Clare's) "quick sword" which is a combination of Irene's and Flora's moves. But based on Miria's foward thinking skills, the edge OVERALL goes to Miria because her control has improved over time and looks like she can decisively control the battle one on one.

On voting, hope you can accept my vote because I am new here: i would have to refer to Rigardo.

[SilentBuddhist]

The question goes as: Which Technique is the Fastest?

Well, this makes Rigardo's vote count 8...I'll edit my above post.

[ColtRugerGlock]

Gome on the confusion. If it comes down to "fastest" then: Quick Sword ' is faster based on the tiff' between Clare and Flora in the manga, just before the invasion of Pieta. Clare held her own against the savvier and experienced Flora.

Meaning either Clare gained experience quickly in a short time or irene's technique is easier to get a hang of instead of Flora's.

and please do add my vote to Rigardo, if possible.

[SilentBuddhist]

Gome on the confusion. If it comes down to "fastest" then: Quick Sword ' is faster based on the tiff' between Clare and Flora in the manga, just before the invasion of Pieta. Clare held her own against the savvier and experienced Flora.

Meaning either Clare gained experience quickly in a short time or irene's technique is easier to get a hang of instead of Flora's.

and please do add my vote to Rigardo, if possible.
It was very difficult for Clare to handle the Quick Sword with her normal arm, partially because of it being her left and less dominant arm, and the rest mostly being difficult to control the arm once it went berserk. Windcutter is easier to manage because it mostly relies on a single swift strike, rather than controlling a volley of faster strikes.

I added your vote onto Rigardo awhile ago. It's on post #45.

[ColtRugerGlock]

It was very difficult for Clare to handle the Quick Sword with her normal arm, partially because of it being her left and less dominant arm, and the rest mostly being difficult to control the arm once it went berserk. Windcutter is easier to manage because it mostly relies on a single swift strike, rather than controlling a volley of faster strikes.

I added your vote onto Rigardo awhile ago. It's on post #45.

Flora relies on "single swift strikes"? Gome, but I don't see it in the drawings nor the anime. Just like Irene, she throws those strikes in multiple sequences, but I admit she is capable of throwing a "single strike' as you termed it.
It really is hard to compare those 2.
But not being the wiser, I didn't see her use it against Rigardo.

[SilentBuddhist]

Jean described it as "drawing her sword, slashing it and then sheathing it--all in a split second." Yagi-san made Windcutter look as if it were too fast for the naked eye to see. Windcutter doesn't rely on a number of strikes to be effective, and it's less reliant on yoki.

Personally, I think there are minor differences between Windcutter and Quick Sword. The two things above are examples.

Rigardo was fast enough to keep up with Miria's older mirages, and when he went after Flora, she didn't have time to react, as his claw was already in her head. That's what I think happened.

[ColtRugerGlock]

Jean described it as "drawing her sword, slashing it and then sheathing it--all in a split second." Yagi-san made Windcutter look as if it were too fast for the naked eye to see. Windcutter doesn't rely on a number of strikes to be effective, and it's less reliant on yoki.

Personally, I think there are minor differences between Windcutter and Quick Sword. The two things above are examples.

Rigardo was fast enough to keep up with Miria's older mirages, and when he went after Flora, she didn't have time to react, as his claw was already in her head. That's what I think happened.

I also have to add that Flora seems to use brute force in her technique while Irene/Clare uses style and finesse in theirs. it could be me, but I do notice that Irene with her QS take out her sword with ease while Flora's has the death stare to hers.

[Glasgow Celtic]

I would have ta go with Miria. Based on speed alone, I'm with Colt, but it's a combination of factors such as effectivity of the strikes vs the person using those strikes, so Im guessing mates that Miria should have the edge, She's a thinker. Now if just relying on speed and who's fastest in moves, Clare should take the crown because of the time that she did fight with Flora at Pieta plus Quick Sword looks easier to teach than Windcutter.

[Hynavian]

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000045/00000059/30-31.jpg

Yeah..i like them too!

I did this cause some one did it once too!!!!

The someone (Prezzo) did it to me cause he's my buddy and I know he's kidding. He even PM-ed me about the Lion. But as for you....:mad: (Different context)

****
My stand is still the same as before, Miria's old mirages win in terms of speed. Clare's Flash Sword wins hands down when pit against Flora's Wind Cutter and Flora's Wind Cutter is the same speed as Miria's new mirages. I was reading through some comments and I went :mad: cause my post was obviously not read. For more information, read my previous post (http://forum.onemanga.com/showpost.php?p=148460&postcount=159).

In my opinion, the Claymore thread is getting kind of messy nowadays and discussions are lost here and there. And guys, goodluck for your exams, see you all after your exams ya :lol:

[hollywoodlou]

Meh...you guys are overly influenced by Prezzo...just like in the Top Model Awards:lol:

Totally agree >.> Prezzo ish to influentual we should make it so Prezzo votes after everyone else then it all works out XD nah i joke.

:lol:

[ColtRugerGlock]

I would have ta go with Miria. Based on speed alone, I'm with Colt, but it's a combination of factors such as effectivity of the strikes vs the person using those strikes, so Im guessing mates that Miria should have the edge, She's a thinker. Now if just relying on speed and who's fastest in moves, Clare should take the crown because of the time that she did fight with Flora at Pieta plus Quick Sword looks easier to teach than Windcutter.

You are going with Miria, Glasgow? that's a good choice. I'm still with Clare's QS. It's not that one of my favorites is Irene (aside) but her technique matches her erratic behavior. Flora's on the other hand, is as fast but covers a wider range. Hope I am making sense here.

[SilentBuddhist]

Okay, I just returned from an anime/manga splurge(meaning I spent more money on anime/manga than expected), and the forums are now...empty? Oh well, since I'm here, I'll respond to some posts.
In my opinion, the Claymore thread is getting kind of messy nowadays and discussions are lost here and there. And guys, goodluck for your exams, see you all after your exams ya :lol:
I've had this week off, and I only have two work days afterwards, then I have the rest of the week to myself. I'll be around for awhile longer before returning to a regular schedule.
:lol:
Haha...that's Prezzo for you :lol:
I would have ta go with Miria. Based on speed alone, I'm with Colt, but it's a combination of factors such as effectivity of the strikes vs the person using those strikes, so Im guessing mates that Miria should have the edge, She's a thinker. Now if just relying on speed and who's fastest in moves, Clare should take the crown because of the time that she did fight with Flora at Pieta plus Quick Sword looks easier to teach than Windcutter.
You are going with Miria, Glasgow? that's a good choice. I'm still with Clare's QS. It's not that one of my favorites is Irene (aside) but her technique matches her erratic behavior. Flora's on the other hand, is as fast but covers a wider range. Hope I am making sense here.
True, given Miria's above-average smarts, Miria's new mirages are overall the superior technique. However, in terms of raw speed, Clare's Quick Sword is the fastest, with Flora's Windcutter and Miria's new mirages behind it.

[Hynavian]

I've had this week off, and I only have two work days afterwards, then I have the rest of the week to myself. I'll be around for awhile longer before returning to a regular schedule.

I have next week off too and that means I'll be seeing you alot in the forums. :lol: I don't really have any regular log in time though.

Seems like the sexy Rigardo lion is winning and I'll be preparing a banner for him soon.

[SilentBuddhist]

I have next week off too and that means I'll be seeing you alot in the forums. :lol: I don't really have any regular log in time though.

Seems like the sexy Rigardo lion is winning and I'll be preparing a banner for him soon.
Me neither. I'm usually around at about 7:30 am here, then return in about...8 hours from there, then I go back and forth between games and the forum. That'll be the regular schedule for me, until I have a real plan :lol:

...I'm not giving up on Raph!

[this is sparta!]

i don't want to be a spoilsport guys, but other than Rigardo winning next week (prezzo's fault as usual) and you and prezzy talking about your personal plans, what's the topic for discussion?

NOTE; sorry I'm late on my Priscilla av, will promise to change for Rigardo week or prezzo/y will hang me, I know.

[Max Gigolo]

I had to claw through 2 pages of nonsense before I saw the newbies : Coltrugerglock and Glasgow trying their best to resurrect the thread.
If this continues, Im going back to the debate forum and start pissing off people.

Well, as long as those noobs nope and useless aren't around, the thread should come alive soon.

[SilentBuddhist]

I'm not influenced that easily. I won't give up! ...Votes end tomorrow, right?

A new topic...geez, our ideas are starting to run dry...

Well...is it me, or have the Black Cards lost the spotlight faster than anything? They're only mentioned three times (ES1+2, and at the end of volume 1), and most Claymores we've seen awaken did so before they could give it to someone.

What I'm asking is: am I the only one who thinks the Black Card is a bit useless? I'm sure it may come into play later in the manga, but for now it's practically never mentioned, and you almost forget what it is when it's brought up again.

...Or did we already bring this up in a previous thread? Sorry, this is all I can think of right now.

[supremecommander]

The vote ends tomorrow? What's the score now 8 for Rigardo, and 5 for Raffy?

Ok, Black card.......hmmm, Ok, I'm in. Where the hell are the prezzies? I think 1MMCM should have another round of officers (other than prezzo and prezzy) and get an officer to think of subjects for discussion.

On the black card? It is important. But I think on the Hilda-Miria situation, that was stupid of Hilda to hand it to the craziest b**ch on the roster, when her life was at stake. If if it was my last day to die as a human being, and don't want to turn into an AB (unless I have a cool form) then my best buddy should have the luzury of taking my head off.

[Hynavian]

I think my topic on which skill is the fastest got lost somewhere in the threads and it's getting bored. Hence, black cards it will be.

Let's discuss the relevance of Black Cards. How useful are they?

In my opinion it's not useful to the Claymore who is near awakening. Awakening can be a one shot process and it takes goodness who knows how long to get the card to the recipient; and for the recipient to travel to the place; while the poor soul struggles in some deserted place and tries her best not to awaken.

However, if it's from the point of view of the organisation, it's real useful to keep track of which Claymore has thrown in the towel and they can effectively seek new warriors to replace the expired.

[this is sparta!]

I'm not influenced that easily. I won't give up! ...Votes end tomorrow, right?

A new topic...geez, our ideas are starting to run dry...

Well...is it me, or have the Black Cards lost the spotlight faster than anything? They're only mentioned three times (ES1+2, and at the end of volume 1), and most Claymores we've seen awaken did so before they could give it to someone.

What I'm asking is: am I the only one who thinks the Black Card is a bit useless? I'm sure it may come into play later in the manga, but for now it's practically never mentioned, and you almost forget what it is when it's brought up again.

...Or did we already bring this up in a previous thread? Sorry, this is all I can think of right now.

Black card? Yeah, Im in. Might as well use my brains. At least I'm not nope. lol

Anyways, sure the Black card has it's purpose. The way I look at it, a majority of the Claymores don't want to end up like an Awakened, but there's a small group who don't give a hoot if they do. The black card is the last "human act" that actually leaves a last connection to earth and also a symbolic last goodbye' as well.

[SilentBuddhist]

The vote ends tomorrow? What's the score now 8 for Rigardo, and 5 for Raffy?

Ok, Black card.......hmmm, Ok, I'm in. Where the hell are the prezzies? I think 1MMCM should have another round of officers (other than prezzo and prezzy) and get an officer to think of subjects for discussion.

On the black card? It is important. But I think on the Hilda-Miria situation, that was stupid of Hilda to hand it to the craziest b**ch on the roster, when her life was at stake. If if it was my last day to die as a human being, and don't want to turn into an AB (unless I have a cool form) then my best buddy should have the luzury of taking my head off.
I agree that that Hilda giving her Black Card to Ophelia was stupid and suicidal, but I don't know how many people knew she went insane because her brother was eaten by Pris. Didn't change the fact that she was crazy, and what Hilda did was stupid.

Again, I'm sure the Black Card will play a role by the end of the manga, but for right now it's almost lost in the crowd, so to speak.

I think that's the count right now...I'll check soon.

It looks like Black Cards are the next subject to talk about. In the meantime, I'll see if I can't find anything else to squeeze out.

[Max Gigolo]

Well looks like we've got a discussion going on: thanks prezzy...or SB, whoever came up with it.

I think the Black card isn't that necessary to me. Look, if you're going to die and awaken and this may sound crazy: can't you actually kill yourself? or are you really that helpless as a Claymore?

If you are the above, then I would pick any Claymore AROUND ME to cut my head off. IF there are NO Claymores around, it will be TOO LATE to expect my watcher to be postmaster/courier/FEDEX/DHL of my Black card.

[nope]

im a little curious as too why the org would give them the choice of contacting the other claymore to kill them rather than keeping tabs on them (which they do quite effectively) and sending some one themselves if they are about to awaken. Or do they want to run the risk of having more and more ABs walking around

[supremecommander]

Well looks like we've got a discussion going on: thanks prezzy...or SB, whoever came up with it.

I think the Black card isn't that necessary to me. Look, if you're going to die and awaken and this may sound crazy: can't you actually kill yourself? or are you really that helpless as a Claymore?

If you are the above, then I would pick any Claymore AROUND ME to cut my head off. IF there are NO Claymores around, it will be TOO LATE to expect my watcher to be postmaster/courier/FEDEX/DHL of my Black card.

That makes sense MG.

It takes a looooooonnngg time to probably pass it on the next Claymore-best friend, by foot, of all modes of transportation! Obviously by the time the card gets there, it's game over.

[this is sparta!]

Well looks like we've got a discussion going on: thanks prezzy...or SB, whoever came up with it.

I think the Black card isn't that necessary to me. Look, if you're going to die and awaken and this may sound crazy: can't you actually kill yourself? or are you really that helpless as a Claymore?

If you are the above, then I would pick any Claymore AROUND ME to cut my head off. IF there are NO Claymores around, it will be TOO LATE to expect my watcher to be postmaster/courier/FEDEX/DHL of my Black card.

You also have to take into account that Claymores should be responsible enough to train even harder than before to mentally hone themselves into NOT going over the limit. Take some responsibility.

Plus, what if the "best Claymore buddy' gets killed by the AB-former Claymore? Some friend that is. We all know by the time the card gets to the Claymore, it definitely is a different being (see Hilda).

[SilentBuddhist]

Well looks like we've got a discussion going on: thanks prezzy...or SB, whoever came up with it.

I think the Black card isn't that necessary to me. Look, if you're going to die and awaken and this may sound crazy: can't you actually kill yourself? or are you really that helpless as a Claymore?

If you are the above, then I would pick any Claymore AROUND ME to cut my head off. IF there are NO Claymores around, it will be TOO LATE to expect my watcher to be postmaster/courier/FEDEX/DHL of my Black card.
Personally, I think getting yourself to cut off your head is easier said than done; it's like in the Saw movies (well, maybe I shouldn't compare the two, but they have somewhat similar situations), where the directions given only sound easy if you're the spectator, but actually doing it yourself takes a lot of willpower. Hopefully the Claymore who's close to awakening can send a Black Card in time, and prevent herself from awakening. If not, she's doomed to become an awakened one, or muster up the courage to kill herself, but I think Clare is the only one we've seen take those measures.
im a little curious as too why the org would give them the choice of contacting the other claymore to kill them rather than keeping tabs on them (which they do quite effectively) and sending some one themselves if they are about to awaken. Or do they want to run the risk of having more and more ABs walking around
Like Prezzy said, business-wise, the Black Cards can be convenient. Since it seems there are so few watchers in the org that have to keep track of many Claymores, the Black Cards ease up some of that burden.

[Hynavian]

Ok, Black card.......hmmm, Ok, I'm in. Where the hell are the prezzies? I think 1MMCM should have another round of officers (other than prezzo and prezzy) and get an officer to think of subjects for discussion.

I've been trying to create topics and I even came up with many evidences but the newbie trolls came, ignored my post, changed the topic etc. Tensa and gang gave one paragaph replies that doesn't prove much a point while the others just repeated my points. So I just gave up and hang around till someone serious for discussions comes along :)

I think the Black card isn't that necessary to me. Look, if you're going to die and awaken and this may sound crazy: can't you actually kill yourself? or are you really that helpless as a Claymore?

The Claymore who's near awakening should know best where her limits are. If the warrior is confident enough to send a black card out, I'm sure she has that enough determinatin to hang on for a little longer while the receipent makes her way there. However, if I'm at my limits, it's way easier to end one's own life instead.

Hence, the black card is like what this is sparta! has suggested - it has more symbolic values as compared to real values in it.

[nope]

Like Prezzy said, business-wise, the Black Cards can be convenient. Since it seems there are so few watchers in the org that have to keep track of many Claymores, the Black Cards ease up some of that burden.
im sure the watchers could handle it, im sure only two or three awakenings at the max will happen in a week. also the watchers seem to be able to show up quite efficiently when payment is to be had or equipment is to be exchanged. i dont think they would have much trouble if any.

[supremecommander]

Prezzy and Sparta' have good points.

I do concur that it is up to the Claymores to hone their skills and prevent themselves from NOT awakening, and that it is just symbolic. If indeed, you can come up and supply the Black card and tell your watcher to pass it on to her, then you should at least have the strength to do this:

kill youself. Why the hell do you have to let your friend suffer WITH YOU? You're the one awakening, and as Sparta' said: it's your fault.

[Hynavian]

im a little curious as too why the org would give them the choice of contacting the other claymore to kill them rather than keeping tabs on them (which they do quite effectively) and sending some one themselves if they are about to awaken. Or do they want to run the risk of having more and more ABs walking around

By sending out the Black Card, you're actually giving yourself the death sentence. The organisation has benefitted to a great extent through the black card system.

Firstly, the organisation is presented in the "good light" as it gave warriors the choice to choose where and when to die. And their friends get to kill them. So it's like the organisation doing a favour to the warriors and all the warriors should feel "grateful".

This also answers your question on why the organisation does not instead send others to eliminate the near awakening warrior. The warrior has not done anything wrong "officially" and to send others to execute her for no reason at all will make all other warriors rebel (as they're seeing their future fate) and lost their respect for the organisation. (Take note that not all Claymores are aware of what the organisation is up to and they are convinced that they're fighting for the good of mankind.)

Secondly, easy book-keeping. Once the warrior sends out the black card, the organisation knows that someone has expired and replacement is soon to come.

[Max Gigolo]

Prezzy and Sparta' have good points.

I do concur that it is up to the Claymores to hone their skills and prevent themselves from NOT awakening, and that it is just symbolic. If indeed, you can come up and supply the Black card and tell your watcher to pass it on to her, then you should at least have the strength to do this:

kill youself. Why the hell do you have to let your friend suffer WITH YOU? You're the one awakening, and as Sparta' said: it's your fault.

Exactly my point. Boy, supreme.....you really go for the jugular! ^^

You also have to be on the viewpoint of the friend. Sure, if my best buddy is near awakening, I would give everything to kill her before she awakens. However, on the viewpoint of the near awakening Claymore, it's just plain old selfishness. Do you need to drag your friend into this?

[this is sparta!]

Exactly my point. Boy, supreme.....you really go for the jugular! ^^

You also have to be on the viewpoint of the friend. Sure, if my best buddy is near awakening, I would give everything to kill her before she awakens. However, on the viewpoint of the near awakening Claymore, it's just plain old selfishness. Do you need to drag your friend into this?

Well, on hindsight, you are giving your best friend the opportunity to say good bye in a PHYSICAL WAY.

I know where you guys (supreme and Max G) are going with this but maybe your friend WANTS THE HONOR of sending you to the afterlife if you are in the bad position of awakening.

If I was near awakened guys, I want my family and friends near me so it's MY TURN to say goodbye to this world. But I'm practical, so if it's too late for me, my fellow Claymores CLOSEST TO ME will do their jobs just fine in killing me as a HUMAN.

[supremecommander]

Well, on hindsight, you are giving your best friend the opportunity to say good bye in a PHYSICAL WAY.

I know where you guys (supreme and Max G) are going with this but maybe your friend WANTS THE HONOR of sending you to the afterlife if you are in the bad position of awakening.

If I was near awakened guys, I want my family and friends near me so it's MY TURN to say goodbye to this world. But I'm practical, so if it's too late for me, my fellow Claymores CLOSEST TO ME will do their jobs just fine in killing me as a HUMAN.

You have a good point there, Sparta. I'm a pragmatist myself as well. I just dont want to bother those who are close to me when i die, but maybe, if that friend REALLY wanted to do it and volunteer, why not give the honor to your friend.

[Max Gigolo]

Yeah, you could be right Sparta'

I have the same reasons as supreme, why both people around you when its your fault you awaken. I repeat, if there are Claymores around you, they'll do the job of finishing you off. No Black cards needed.

On the other hand, maybe my best friend, i said maybe: the friend would WANT the honor of killing me. It all comes down to how close you are to that Claymore you are sending that Black Card to.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

There is also the point of how hard it must be to kill yourself - a friend would be like a last time seeing them before the end and it is a sure way for to get killed if the claymore has yet to awaken. Besides how exactly would they kill themselves? I'm still in shock at how Irene chopped her own arm off with the same arm she cut off 0.o.....wtf?

[supremecommander]

There is also the point of how hard it must be to kill yourself - a friend would be like a last time seeing them before the end and it is a sure way for to get killed if the claymore has yet to awaken. Besides how exactly would they kill themselves? I'm still in shock at how Irene chopped her own arm off with the same arm she cut off 0.o.....wtf?

How to kill yourself? Get your Claymore and do it like Irene did, but this time aim for your head! If you have the time to get your black card out, call your watcher, tell your watcher what the friend's name is, then you've got the time and energy to kill yourself.

[Max Gigolo]

How to kill yourself? Get your Claymore and do it like Irene did, but this time aim for your head! If you have the time to get your black card out, call your watcher, tell your watcher what the friend's name is, then you've got the time and energy to kill yourself.

Supreme, your post was both funny and true at the same time! LOL I also doubt a small number of Claymore would allow themselves to be killed, and would choose to be AB's anyways. Tragic if you think about it. In retro, if you have the time to do all of the above, then you should have the strength to kill yourself with your own Claymore.

Ok dudes, I'm going out on a Friday night so Ill see u tomorrow. Good job prezzy and SB on the topic.

[this is sparta!]

How to kill yourself? Get your Claymore and do it like Irene did, but this time aim for your head! If you have the time to get your black card out, call your watcher, tell your watcher what the friend's name is, then you've got the time and energy to kill yourself.

LOL supreme! I disagree with your argument, but you gained points with that post, buddy. They are capable of ending their own lives, even though I sided with the card process and it's symbolism. That's it for me as well, boys and girls. It's Friday night and time to get down.

[xellentxecution]

How to kill yourself? Get your Claymore and do it like Irene did, but this time aim for your head! If you have the time to get your black card out, call your watcher, tell your watcher what the friend's name is, then you've got the time and energy to kill yourself.

Hm...as true as that sounds...i have yet to see anybody kill themselves....which i dont want to see!

Where are the black cards stored?...in the claymors?

[18fenrir]

Black Cards are stored in the hilt of the claymores. Clare explains it in the early chapters

[xellentxecution]

Yeah..thats right.But since its notta very interesting topic...lets move on towards....the world of claymore!

What i mean is...like are there any countries...like north,south,west and east is there as well as towns and all...but no kingdom,government or whatever.
The only organization seems to be the ummm......... The Organization????Get me??

[ELUNE]

Hello! i'm ELUNE and I'm new here so don't be cruel plz! I read Claymore till chapter 74 and i think it's superb (with a few exceptions)!

[Killsquad1]

Hynavian, hey this is a responce to the post you left me in Claymore XII. (have not read this one yet)

I made it sound like clare was REALLY weak and that mostly because i dont like her. (but i do like her at the same time) Miria also said Clare had a really sloppy fighting style in the slashers arc if you remember and deneve and (the other claymore cant remember her name Henlan?) also said that she was pathetic, mostly speaking in fighting style. ALSO Riful(spelling?) of the West said the same thing about clare, remember she told Duff that he could kill clare because she sensed her power to be so weak. Though i do give her credit that Riful said she was able to control her beserking arm it still shows that clare was relying completely on the power of Irene instead of herself. That is why i say she is so much weaker than everyone else.

As for her flashsword thats not really clare fighting. That is Irene's arm remember clare's arm couldnt handle it and would give out and start making the rest of her body awaken. So i wouldnt really count that into her power (besides i agree she pwns face with flash sword :thumbup: ). I think NOW that she has been training and using windcutter instead of flashsword that she is stronger but i mean before the war.

As far as her Yoma sensing ability i dont know how you can measure that mainly from the fact that there is the no bases to judge on. Yes Clare is better then the normal Claymore but shes not as good as the ORG's "eye". I think the only thing that makes clare's yoma sensing better is that she uses that to fight with instead of her reaction time and what not. Its like saying how in sword fighting when you go to block its because you respond the your opponent's movements AFTER they are made because its easiest to use your eyes and you can do it with ease, and then you make your strike. But if you put clare in the position she has to react to her opponents before they move and this is good for defence but when you switch to offence she cant react to her opponents before they move so her skill decreases DRASTICLY, why? because the enemy can respond with their eyes and guard or dodge easily.

But i realized now that most of what im saying is pointless as Clare has obviously improved over the years of isolation. I do believe clare is a stronger warriors NOW but i think she was helpless and kinda worthless before the war.

o also as far as the 1 = 1% 100 = 100% and 3 = 1 % and 300 = 100% thing i ment can a claymore increase their base power and strength or are they stuck as they are forever. (i based this off the fact that claymores ware out after awhile and their limit is reached and passed and they send in their black card. its directed at the yoma power limit as 80% is supposedly the awakening limit)

[Hynavian]

Black Cards are stored in the hilt of the claymores. Clare explains it in the early chapters]

Yeah..thats right.But since its notta very interesting topic...lets move on towards....the world of claymore!

What i mean is...like are there any countries...like north,south,west and east is there as well as towns and all...but no kingdom,government or whatever.
The only organization seems to be the ummm......... The Organization????Get me??

xellentxecution! You don't even quote properly! And I don't get what you're asking. Please try again.

Hello! i'm ELUNE and I'm new here so don't be cruel plz! I read Claymore till chapter 74 and i think it's superb (with a few exceptions)!

Hi, welcome to the forums. We're friendly toward new comers who are nice. (nice=obey forum rules & are not spammers) There's 4 Extra Side Scenes on the OM site just in case you miss them out. Enjoy your stay :thumbup:

[Killsquad1]

What i mean is...like are there any countries...like north,south,west and east is there as well as towns and all...but no kingdom,government or whatever.
The only organization seems to be the ummm......... The Organization????Get me??[/QUOTE]
I only read this post but it caught my attention :D

Well there is the organization of religion which is present in the holy city of rabin-something, the city that clare enter and galatea is in right now. That has a guard system which im sure isnt set up by the church which does indicate a higher presence in the tower. I think its like midevil times where the castles of the kings are guarded and then there are farmer like towns or merchant like towns all over the place, know what i mean. Also as far as no guards, there is probably to much worry over the Yoma to send trained guards to every city.

PS: Hynavian i hope you didnt miss my post on page 9 :(

[Hynavian]

thats true they only change their appearance and they are suppose to be demons it doesnt state if they were once humans or not or if they are even part human.

also if you think of how it states so firmly that once you awaken and become a full yoma that there is no coming back so it would be assumed that an already full yoma wouldnt be able to become a human, or at least thats what im sticking to.

another thing i noticed is that Teresa was all about reading yoma energy and thats what made her special. where Clare is all about awakening her body to defeat yoma. How exactly are they related? Clare is no where near the level of reading yoma that the ORG's "eye" is nor is she anywhere near the level of Teresa. IMO shes weaker then a normal claymore in every area except her yoma sensing abilities which are only slightly better. I come to this conclusion from the fact that EVERYONE who has ever fought her has said that her fighting style is so sloppy and so full of wasted movements.

Here is a question, Can the maximum level of a claymore's yoma energy be raised? Say 1% = 1 and 100% = 100 could a claymore make it so 1% is 3 and 100% is 300 from training or what not?

I went back to dig out what you have written and to check what I have written cause it's so way back that I can't even remember what I have written.

Hynavian, hey this is a responce to the post you left me in Claymore XII. (have not read this one yet)

I made it sound like clare was REALLY weak and that mostly because i dont like her. (but i do like her at the same time) Miria also said Clare had a really sloppy fighting style in the slashers arc if you remember and deneve and (the other claymore cant remember her name Henlan?) also said that she was pathetic, mostly speaking in fighting style. ALSO Riful(spelling?) of the West said the same thing about clare, remember she told Duff that he could kill clare because she sensed her power to be so weak. Though i do give her credit that Riful said she was able to control her beserking arm it still shows that clare was relying completely on the power of Irene instead of herself. That is why i say she is so much weaker than everyone else.

If you read real carefully what I had replied in the post (http://forum.onemanga.com/showpost.php?p=145920&postcount=79) after yours, you will notice that I did not bring in a 7 years later Clare to counter your arguments. I brought in a 7 years before Clare and I disagreed with what you have mentioned in blue, which is your below point,

Clare is "weaker than a normal Claymore in every area except for her Yoma sensing abilities which are onlyt slightly better."

I did acknowledge in my THAT post that many characters, even Ophelia, claimed that Clare's fighting style is sloppy. (Which you have mentioned again above) But if you will want to argue that Clare is weak because she used Irene's arm instead of her own arm, then I think your argument is not solid enough. I'm assuming that you're arguing that if you use the sword of character X to slay an Awakened Being (AB), it's character X kill instead of yours as you have used the sword of character X to kill the AB when you're the one controlling it. Hence, you're weak cause you did not use your own sword to slay the AB cause you used your friend's, character X sword.

Once again, my stand is that Clare is not weaker than a normal Claymore as with flash sword she can wipe out any normal Claymores like Yuma, Tabitha etc.

As for her flashsword thats not really clare fighting. That is Irene's arm remember clare's arm couldnt handle it and would give out and start making the rest of her body awaken. So i wouldnt really count that into her power (besides i agree she pwns face with flash sword :thumbup: ). I think NOW that she has been training and using windcutter instead of flashsword that she is stronger but i mean before the war.

It seems like we're arguing on totally different grounds as you feel that if the arm is not yours, you can't claim credit for it. You have to credit Clare for being able to use the skills.

As far as her Yoma sensing ability i dont know how you can measure that mainly from the fact that there is the no bases to judge on. Yes Clare is better then the normal Claymore but shes not as good as the ORG's "eye". I think the only thing that makes clare's yoma sensing better is that she uses that to fight with instead of her reaction time and what not. Its like saying how in sword fighting when you go to block its because you respond the your opponent's movements AFTER they are made because its easiest to use your eyes and you can do it with ease, and then you make your strike. But if you put clare in the position she has to react to her opponents before they move and this is good for defence but when you switch to offence she cant react to her opponents before they move so her skill decreases DRASTICLY, why? because the enemy can respond with their eyes and guard or dodge easily.

With regards to your above paragraph, I assume that it's for the point "Clare is no where near the level of reading yoma that the ORG's "eye" is nor is she anywhere near the level of Teresa".

What do you mean from the lines that I have bold above? One of my points is that you should not just belittle Clare's Yoki sensing abilities as we DO NOT HAVE enough prove as to how far a distance Teresa can sense with her abilites as there are NO CHAPTERS that can fully substantiate her far distant Yoki sensing abilities. Hence, we cannot totally discredit Clare as being weaker than Teresa in terms of sensing Yoki from a distance as there are no bases (Not enough evidences from Teresa's chapters) to base on. I gave Clare the credit as she did for once, showed her ability to sense Yoki from afar as she managed to grasp a moment of someone (Galatea) "watching" over her on the other side of the mountains in the slashers arc.

If you have the bases to judge on, please provide them.


But i realized now that most of what im saying is pointless as Clare has obviously improved over the years of isolation. I do believe clare is a stronger warriors NOW but i think she was helpless and kinda worthless before the war.

o also as far as the 1 = 1% 100 = 100% and 3 = 1 % and 300 = 100% thing i ment can a claymore increase their base power and strength or are they stuck as they are forever. (i based this off the fact that claymores ware out after awhile and their limit is reached and passed and they send in their black card. its directed at the yoma power limit as 80% is supposedly the awakening limit)

I'm still not really sure about the percentage thing so I think I'll leave it to the other members to answer your posts. I'm bad with maths and figures (percentage) make me giddy in the head when I try to think about it. Anyway, what you're saying is not pointless, it's at least some discussions and it's good to have solid ones around. :thumbup:

[18fenrir]

I think what xcellentxecution was asking is, the story is taking place in a continent (as mentioned) and there are four general areas mentioned. North, South, East and West. So who is the governing body of them(individual regions or collectively)?

Me, i think there are none. It seems that the whole continent was only sparsely populated and most forms of civilisation are villages. The only city we have seen is Rabona which is governed by the Church? They pretty much keeps to themselves anyway.

But i guess we can confidently say that the "underworld/yoma/AB world" is governed such as:

North : Currently unoccupied by any major power. Nor humans.
East : The Organisation base and also known to be desolate so not much humans?
South : Isley and Priscilla
West : Riful and Duff

[SilentBuddhist]

I think what xcellentxecution was asking is, the story is taking place in a continent (as mentioned) and there are four general areas mentioned. North, South, East and West. So who is the governing body of them(individual regions or collectively)?

Me, i think there are none. It seems that the whole continent was only sparsely populated and most forms of civilisation are villages. The only city we have seen is Rabona which is governed by the Church? They pretty much keeps to themselves anyway.

But i guess we can confidently say that the "underworld/yoma/AB world" is governed such as:

North : Currently unoccupied by any major power. Nor humans.
East : The Organisation base and also known to be desolate so not much humans?
South : Isley and Priscilla
West : Riful and Duff
I also agree that there is no specific body of government that rules the continent. All the villages and cities we've seen so far are completely independent of one another, and have nothing to do with the other places around them. And in each town, there is a person who "governs" the citizens of that town, the village chief. It doesn't get any more specific than that.

As for the Abyssals, they somewhat resemble how wild animals have their own specific territory, with Isley and Riful being the chiefs of their territories, respectively. It's only if one other Abyssal (or the Org) threatens to conquer their territory, or show signs of doing so, that they take action. However, they tend to keep to themselves most of the time, and don't really involve themselves with human affairs.

[Tank]

I think what xcellentxecution was asking is, the story is taking place in a continent (as mentioned) and there are four general areas mentioned. North, South, East and West. So who is the governing body of them(individual regions or collectively)?

Me, i think there are none. It seems that the whole continent was only sparsely populated and most forms of civilisation are villages. The only city we have seen is Rabona which is governed by the Church? They pretty much keeps to themselves anyway.

But i guess we can confidently say that the "underworld/yoma/AB world" is governed such as:

North : Currently unoccupied by any major power. Nor humans.
East : The Organisation base and also known to be desolate so not much humans?
South : Isley and Priscilla
West : Riful and Duff


So there isn't any major human power besides the organisation?
Every single city or village that Claymores go trough seem to be rulled by some sort of council of town folk.

[xellentxecution]

xellentxecution! You don't even quote properly! And I don't get what you're asking. Please try again.

Hahaha..you made that sound like some wrong phone call!!!!
I think what xcellentxecution was asking is, the story is taking place in a continent (as mentioned) and there are four general areas mentioned. North, South, East and West. So who is the governing body of them(individual regions or collectively)?

Me, i think there are none. It seems that the whole continent was only sparsely populated and most forms of civilisation are villages. The only city we have seen is Rabona which is governed by the Church? They pretty much keeps to themselves anyway.

But i guess we can confidently say that the "underworld/yoma/AB world" is governed such as:

North : Currently unoccupied by any major power. Nor humans.
East : The Organisation base and also known to be desolate so not much humans?
South : Isley and Priscilla
West : Riful and Duff

Thanks for getting what i meant 18fenrir!!!!

[SilentBuddhist]

So there isn't any major human power besides the organisation?
Every single city or village that Claymores go trough seem to be rulled by some sort of council of town folk.
So far, Rabona and the Org are the only two places we've seen with a real system of government. The Org has an hierarchy, with Chief Rimuto and his council, and the Claymore's go from #1(strongest) to #47(weakest); Rabona has a religious community, which is run by the bishop. Any other towns we've seen are just mainly dependent on the village chief.

[Hynavian]

It's time for a new topic as the topic on black cards have clearly expired and the governmental structure appeared to be a ask and answer question.

Let's move on to the Significance of the Claymore (the sword). Some questions to help get things started. Why do their swords mean so much to them as Deneve mentioned in Vol 13 Chpt72 Pg07 (http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/72/07/) Why won't the awakened beings hold on to their Claymores? Practicality or nostalgic? Why do some awakened beings still used their Claymores? (Eg: Priscilla and Rosemary)

A member of Scottish origin, Glasgow Celtic (http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?p=148462#post148462), provided some information on the swords which I have hid in the "spoiler" button.
Aye Hynavian, tis true. Claymore is Scottish in origin. The swords were used by Highlander chiefs to beat back the English and like me grampappy William Wallace (Braveheart) the swords were huge so one strike was enough to cut down the enemy (the English). That's why I am now a fan of Claymore.(Playing me bagpipes)

And please take some time to read what I have researched below with regards to the origins of the Claymore before starting on the discussions. Click on "Spoiler" to view the origins of the Scottish Claymore.

Abstract from NobleWares
"The Scottish Claymore is usually identified with the Scots as a symbol of pride and strength. The Claymore, or "Claidheamh-mor" (Great Sword) in Gaelic is a two handed broad sword utilized by the Scottish Highlander throughout several centuries. Used in the constant clan warfare and border fights with the English from 1500 to 1650 and still in use as late as the Rebellion of 1745, the two-handed Claymore seems to be an offshoot of earlier broadswords as they were developed into great-swords.

The Claymore was feared because of its strength and size. It was said that the bearer of a Claymore needed no shield (how could he carry one, anyway?) because the reach of the sword provided its own protection. Today, it stands as a great symbol of Scottish heritage."

Lastly, have fun discussing and don't go off topic please.
PS: What do you all think if I do about setting topics for discussion in this style?

[SilentBuddhist]

It's time for a new topic as the topic on black cards have clearly expired and the governmental structure appeared to be a ask and answer question.
Yep, no more Black Cards I guess...
Let's move on to the Significance of the Claymore (the sword). Some questions to help get things started. Why do their swords mean so much to them as Deneve mentioned in Vol 13 Chpt72 Pg07 (http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/72/07/) Why won't the awakened beings hold on to their Claymores? Practicality or nostalgic? Why do some awakened beings still used their Claymores? (Eg: Priscilla and Rosemary)
They are often used as gravestones for deceased Claymores, and most awakened ones have a form where they don't need a sword. Pris is one of the few awakened forms that isn't enormous, and she's one of the most humanoid awakened forms we've seen. She used her sword to cut off Teresa's head, and she flew away with it, but she never had it with her afterwards. As for Rosemary, when she showed her awakened form she never used her sword either.

PS: What do you all think if I do about setting topics for discussion in this style?
It works for me...Since the question is bolded, we'll know what you're asking right away, rather than reading through an entire post.

[Tank]

This style is quite good for setting the discussion imo.

For Claymores the sword is their life because they aren't that strong without it. For them it's the one thing that no matter what happens they can rely on. Also tough their speed, strenght and agility are boosted thanks to Yoki they don't recieve any kinda of weapons like Ab's to fight. Thus they depend on swords (and there's also the fact that they never get to train anything else so i don't think it's a matter of chosing that paritcullar weapon)

When a Claymore dies the sword becomes the gravestone, it represents her identity and what she is. nothing alot to comment on this.

But when a Claymore becomes an AB they no longer ned Claymore to fight because at this level the body itself is a huge killing weapon. The fact that they are also brain washed by the yoki stream to hunt for humans makes them care nothing about their swords who are probably nothing more than a nuisance now so they just throw them away.

Anyway its what i think of the subject feel free to criticise

Btw why is the info about the swords considered a spoiler? it doesnt has anything to do with the manga...

[Noelle]

Booya. I'm pretty much new here, so please be nice and don't eat me, thanks. :o

Anyway, I also think that way of setting a discussion is good. Pretty much clears the mess I see in other forums.

Topic-wise now.

When a Claymore dies the sword becomes the gravestone, it represents her identity and what she is. nothing alot to comment on this.

Nah, I've got something to comment on that. When a human becomes half-yoma, half-human, they are no longer purely human. Thus they no longer have a true human identity - the symbol on the claymore becomes their new identity, the identity of a half-human, half-yoma. They are recognized - at least, by fellow Claymores and the Organization - by their symbols after all, if not their names.

I would be inclined to think that the swords are important to Claymores because it marks a new start in their lives: they are no longer human; now, they fight for their survival, and for the good of mankind.

ABs on the other hand, apparently have their human and Yoma side joined together into one consciousness, it seems. So while they have the intelligence of a human, the other aspects of ABs seem to be that of a Yoma's, power and ability excluded. Therefore the sword wouldn't mean much to them, maybe a weapon that can be discarded at any given moment. ABs are no longer Claymores; the sword marked the identity of them as a Claymore, so it would make sense for them not to care about the sword anymore.

[Hynavian]

Btw why is the info about the swords considered a spoiler? it doesnt has anything to do with the manga...
It's not a spoiler, I just want to make my post look not so lengthy by hiding the optional paragraphs.

Booya. I'm pretty much new here, so please be nice and don't eat me, thanks. :o

Anyway, I also think that way of setting a discussion is good. Pretty much clears the mess I see in other forums.

Topic-wise now.
Hi, welcome to the forums. I'm impressed with your first post and please continue to post solid arguments. You're what I have been waiting for.

Coming back to the topic,
Claymores are not a necessity for Awakened Beings (AB)s as they've their natural skills like extendable fingers, sharp claws, flying deadly hairstyle, etc. Hence, in my opinion, ABs who hold on to their Claymore either use it as a tool (this time) to deceive others. Just like the case of Rosemary where she tried to trick Teresa into believeing that she had not awakened. Or used it out of convenience. In the case of Priscilla, she awakened while holding on to her sword and it would be ridiculous to throw the sword away and then use her fingers to scratch Irene. She was just holding on to it at that point of time and used it out of convenience.

[SilentBuddhist]

This style is quite good for setting the discussion imo.

For Claymores the sword is their life because they aren't that strong without it. For them it's the one thing that no matter what happens they can rely on. Also tough their speed, strenght and agility are boosted thanks to Yoki they don't recieve any kinda of weapons like Ab's to fight. Thus they depend on swords (and there's also the fact that they never get to train anything else so i don't think it's a matter of chosing that paritcullar weapon)

When a Claymore dies the sword becomes the gravestone, it represents her identity and what she is. nothing alot to comment on this.

But when a Claymore becomes an AB they no longer ned Claymore to fight because at this level the body itself is a huge killing weapon. The fact that they are also brain washed by the yoki stream to hunt for humans makes them care nothing about their swords who are probably nothing more than a nuisance now so they just throw them away.

Anyway its what i think of the subject feel free to criticise
Not all Claymores are dependent on their sword, Miata is a fine example of this, but I do agree that it's what defines who they are, that it gives them an identity. When they become an AB, it's merely a paperweight once they awaken, and it's discarded by them.
Btw why is the info about the swords considered a spoiler? it doesnt has anything to do with the manga...
It saves more space, as the info is fairly long.
Booya. I'm pretty much new here, so please be nice and don't eat me, thanks. :o

Anyway, I also think that way of setting a discussion is good. Pretty much clears the mess I see in other forums.

Topic-wise now.
Welcome to the forums Noelle. :) It looks like we all agree that Hynavian's (aka Prezzy, for future reference) new method of setting up a new discussion works. Anyways hope you enjoy our cleaner-than-most forums. :thumbup:
Nah, I've got something to comment on that. When a human becomes half-yoma, half-human, they are no longer purely human. Thus they no longer have a true human identity - the symbol on the claymore becomes their new identity, the identity of a half-human, half-yoma. They are recognized - at least, by fellow Claymores and the Organization - by their symbols after all, if not their names.

I would be inclined to think that the swords are important to Claymores because it marks a new start in their lives: they are no longer human; now, they fight for their survival, and for the good of mankind.

ABs on the other hand, apparently have their human and Yoma side joined together into one consciousness, it seems. So while they have the intelligence of a human, the other aspects of ABs seem to be that of a Yoma's, power and ability excluded. Therefore the sword wouldn't mean much to them, maybe a weapon that can be discarded at any given moment. ABs are no longer Claymores; the sword marked the identity of them as a Claymore, so it would make sense for them not to care about the sword anymore.
Very good way of putting it. Claymores become different people when they become Claymores, and so the symbol on their swords at that point mark their new identity. They now no longer live ordinary human lives; their new norm become risking their lives for humans, and trying to stay alive. They will either die with their new identity, with their swords as their gravestones, or they will awaken, and yet again receive a new identity, which makes their swords useless. It no longer resembles their identity, and their body is capable of inflicting more damage than the sword, so it is only natural for them to throw it away.

...Gah! I'd hate to admit it, but I guess it's Rigardo week.

This is Prezzo's fault...again :lol:

[Tank]

Booya. I'm pretty much new here, so please be nice and don't eat me, thanks. :o


Welcome to the forums ^^

Nah, I've got something to comment on that. When a human becomes half-yoma, half-human, they are no longer purely human. Thus they no longer have a true human identity - the symbol on the claymore becomes their new identity, the identity of a half-human, half-yoma. They are recognized - at least, by fellow Claymores and the Organization - by their symbols after all, if not their names.

I would be inclined to think that the swords are important to Claymores because it marks a new start in their lives: they are no longer human; now, they fight for their survival, and for the good of mankind.

Altough i have to agree that for Claymores their sword is their identity i believe that also applies to their uniform and the way they look (silver eyes and hair). Besides the fact that that the symbol is also on the uniform. When you see a Claymore you don't ned to see her sword to recognise what she is.

I think when a Claymore loses his sword he feels more like if she has lost a "friend" or an ally instead of her identity. However i do agree with your post. i wish i could explain myself as good as you..

Oh and i don't really think they care about mankind at all... Atleast most of them

[h0tprints]

Reading all at once...so your new way of posting topics means i can't talk about black cards anymore? After reading the black card topic i really wanted to comment on claymores killing themselves...it doesn't seem like they can. Even claire at rabona when she was going to awaken put her sword to her neck and wanted to kill herself...said good bye...but couldn't do it and had to ask galk to do it. I don't think their yoma side lets them kill themselves. At that point it seems like the yoma is in control of the body as much as the conscious is.

[SilentBuddhist]

Reading all at once...so your new way of posting topics means i can't talk about black cards anymore? After reading the black card topic i really wanted to comment on claymores killing themselves...it doesn't seem like they can. Even claire at rabona when she was going to awaken put her sword to her neck and wanted to kill herself...said good bye...but couldn't do it and had to ask galk to do it. I don't think their yoma side lets them kill themselves. At that point it seems like the yoma is in control of the body as much as the conscious is.
Well, the reason she couldn't kill herself then was because her body was beginning to act on its own, as she was closing in on awakening. She had to suppress herself so Galk could get a clean cut. But let's stick with the topic at hand--The significance of the Claymore Swords.

Umm...Rigardo week!

And...200 posts in 2 weeks!...Should I be happy?

[Noelle]

Hi, welcome to the forums. I'm impressed with your first post and please continue to post solid arguments. You're what I have been waiting for.

Thanks, I hope I don't disappoint you, then. :D

Welcome to the forums Noelle. :) It looks like we all agree that Hynavian's (aka Prezzy, for future reference) new method of setting up a new discussion works. Anyways hope you enjoy our cleaner-than-most forums. :thumbup:

Heh, thanks. xD

Welcome to the forums ^^

Arigato. xDD

OKAY! BACK TO TOPIC...

Besides the fact that that the symbol is also on the uniform. When you see a Claymore you don't ned to see her sword to recognise what she is.

True, but uniforms tear pretty easily, although I haven't seen the part where their symbol is torn before. =/ Also, for renegade Claymores, their sword, really, is the only way they can be identified if they aren't physically recognized.

I think when a Claymore loses his sword he feels more like if she has lost a "friend" or an ally instead of her identity. However i do agree with your post. i wish i could explain myself as good as you..

(: Practice, and read more english literature? :D And I sort of agree with you on that. Although I think they would be more... desperate, instead of feeling like they had lost a friend. As someone mentioned earlier... without their claymores, they're basically cannon fodder, unless they're like Miata and can tear Yoma apart with their bare hands. >_>

Oh and i don't really think they care about mankind at all... At least most of them

IMO, it's more like they are afraid of entering into a companionship with mankind, because of the dangers they face daily and perhaps because it would be difficult to protect a helpless human while fighting for their own survival. I think it's fear they feel, not that they don't care: after all, they were once humans themselves.

Of course, there are exclusions, such as Ophelia.

Claymores are not a necessity for Awakened Beings (AB)s as they've their natural skills like extendable fingers, sharp claws, flying deadly hairstyle, etc. Hence, in my opinion, ABs who hold on to their Claymore either use it as a tool (this time) to deceive others. Just like the case of Rosemary where she tried to trick Teresa into believeing that she had not awakened. Or used it out of convenience. In the case of Priscilla, she awakened while holding on to her sword and it would be ridiculous to throw the sword away and then use her fingers to scratch Irene. She was just holding on to it at that point of time and used it out of convenience.

Agreed. :D Oh, I've been wondering if the Abyssal Ones, who seem to lean somewhat more to the human side than most ABs do, or at least, make good use of their human intelligence, still keep their claymores somewhere safe or discarded them... if they were still somewhat more human than most ABs, perhaps they wouldn't have wanted to discard their claymores. Isley's room, in one part of the manga, had two swords above his fireplace. It could be possible he didn't discard his claymore, but instead kept it somewhere safe for memory purposes or something. =/

And...200 posts in 2 weeks!...Should I be happy?

Of course! :lol:

And what's this with Rigardo week? xD

[SilentBuddhist]

Of course! :lol:

And what's this with Rigardo week? xD
Thanks :thumbup: Although, this was because I've had two weeks (and I'll have most of next week) off, although starting tomorrow I'll probably have to get back to work for two days, then I have the rest of the week to myself.

Rigardo Week...Okay, how to explain...

Every week, we hold up a vote over who will be our Claymore of the Week. Once it's decided, we all (or most of us) begin to search for avatars and signatures that represent the Claymore of the week. They also have to fit the rules of the forums. So far we've had Clare, Helen, Ophelia, Riful, Galatea, Teresa and Priscilla as a Claymore of the Week. And this week it's Rigardo Week. If you ever feel like joining, you're more than welcome to :)

[Hynavian]

Ok, I'm hoping that this topic will spur more discussions than the previous 2 as I will only be posting the next topic 3 days later. Edit: The gang did not appear cause it's the weekend and I think my topic is not really flexible enough. Hence, I came up with another.

NEW TOPIC

"Riful is evil and is selfish."

Some points to ponder before you start

Your stand? (Agree, agree partially, disagree, etc)
From whose point of view are you taking? (Riful, Bestest Best Friend of Riful, Claymore, Humans, etc)
Define evil and define selfish.
Why is she so and why is she not? Examples?


I'm also adding a "Do You Know" section after every created topic and will be providing out of context information for the topics mentioned. I'm just pushing some of it as I could not find any additional information on the topic.

DO YOU KNOW...

"Do you know that Rifu Station (利府駅) is a JR East railway station located in Rifu, Miyagi Prefecture, Japan? The station opened in 1894 and a second platform was constructed due to the 2002 World Cup so that it could handle additional traffic.

If you want to ride the rails into Tokyo, you could find yourself cruising at 168 mph aboard a bullet train operated by East Japan Railway, known as JR East. The company carries passengers on more than 7,525 km (4,665 miles) of track in the eastern half of the Japanese mainland, including the Tokyo area. JR East's "shinkansen" (bullet-train) lines connect metropolitan Tokyo with other major cities."

Researched by Hyn, Sources Wiki and Answers.com

*****
My replies to the previous post of h0tprints & SB

To h0tprints
Reading all at once...so your new way of posting topics means i can't talk about black cards anymore?
You can as long as you have new interesting points to bring up. You'll notice that I only start a new topic when the thread is heading nowhere.
*****

To SB
Umm...Rigardo week!
And...200 posts in 2 weeks!...Should I be happy?
It's the sexy Lion's week. Oh congratulates with regards to your posts.

[SilentBuddhist]

Ok, I'm hoping that this topic will spur more discussions than the previous 2 as I will only be posting the next topic 3 days later.

NEW TOPIC

"Riful is evil and is selfish."

Some points to ponder before you start

Your stand? (Agree, agree partially, disagree, etc)
From whose point of view are you taking? (Riful, Bestest Best Friend of Riful, Claymore, Humans, etc)
Define evil and define selfish.
Why is she so and why is she not? Examples?


I'm also adding a "Do You Know" section after every created topic and will be providing out of context information for the topics mentioned. I'm just pushing some of it as I could not find any additional information on the topic.

DO YOU KNOW...

"Do you know that Rifu Station (利府駅) is a JR East railway station located in Rifu, Miyagi Prefecture, Japan? The station opened in 1894 and a second platform was contructed due to the 2002 World Cup so that it could handle additional traffic.

If you want to ride the rails into Tokyo, you could find yourself cruising at 168 mph aboard a bullet train operated by East Japan Railway, known as JR East. The company carries passengers on more than 7,525 km (4,665 miles) of track in the eastern half of the Japanese mainland, including the Tokyo area. JR East's "shinkansen" (bullet-train) lines connect metropolitan Tokyo with other major cities."

Researched by Hyn, Sources Wiki and Answers.com

*****
My replies to the previous post of h0tprints & SB

To h0tprints

You can as long as you have new interesting points to bring up. You'll notice that I only start a new topic when the thread is heading nowhere.
*****

To SB

It's the sexy Lion's week. Oh congratulates with regards to your posts.
This is really organized Prezzy. Something like this definitely works :thumbup:

Do I think Riful is evil and selfish? I do. While she and her man Duff both agree that what she's doing is right, this is only natural because it's common for people to go along with what they think is right. But from a human or a Claymore's perspective, what she is doing is evil and selfish. My way of defining evil and selfish are:

Evil: descibes something or someone that is filled with malice and cruelty, and other immoral characteristics.
Selfish: to be concerned with only yourself; puts your concerns and priorities above all others.

Galatea claimed that Riful was the youngest Claymore to ever awaken, and she was the first to ever release the degree of power that she had. I'm assuming that Riful may have been the same age as Miata then, and most children at that age are selfish be default. And she was probably aware of what people said about her then, so she became even more conceited, and tried to use whatever it took to get what she wanted.

Examples: When she first appeared, she was using Duff to torture Claymores into awakening, and after Katia did so, she declared she was too weak, and told Duff to crush her, and she never even batted an eye about it. And it was all to make an army of awakened ones that met her needs. Even after seven years, she never changed, and set her sights on Audrey and Rachel, as well as Clare and Galatea, for the same goal.

Never knew about that Rifu Station in Japan...pretty nifty.

200+ posts and counting! :eban:

[Noelle]

Hehehe. Forgive me SilentBuddhist, but I'll have to go against you on certain points. :P But before that...

Yes, I agree Riful is evil and selfish. But only to a certain extent. She has not completely lost her morals and values. I'm taking the point of view of an outsider, lol. >_>

My way of defining evil and selfish are:

Evil: descibes something or someone that is filled with malice and cruelty, and other immoral characteristics.
Selfish: to be concerned with only yourself; puts your concerns and priorities above all others.

Nice definition that matches with my own, more or less. However, the definition of evil here, does not exactly tally with Riful. True, she heartlessly tortured Jean, and when Katea awakened, she ordered Duff to kill her, all so she could make an army that met her needs. And she is a child: all the things you pointed out do apply to her.

So now we look at it from a different view: Riful herself.

Riful would surely feel threatened by Isley. All the more now, since she's a mere kid. Isley's gathering an army himself, why, he could just barge into the West at any moment and claim her territory! She has to defend herself! She feels threatened, perhaps afraid even, that her territory will be seized by Isley. Now from her perspective, the only way to gather ABs would be to force Claymores to awaken. So that's what she does, with the help of Duff. She probably has some idea of how strong Isley's army is. I'm assuming that. =/

Awakened Beings who show that they are incapable of standing against the strength of Isley's army, which, say - are all above average, naturally will be killed. Riful doesn't want an army comprising of every AB she can get her hands on - she wants an army capable of holding its own against Isley and his army. One could even say she was strategic, from this perspective. She would rather choose an army of - say, 40 above average Awakened, rather than an army of 100 ABs, most of which are far too weak to hold their own against Isley's army.

To her, quality is far better than quantity - and that is true in most cases.

From Riful's perspective, killing Katea was like a mercy slaughter. After all, if Katea was going to die anyway, should Isley and Riful go to war, why keep her in the first place? She probably can't even take down a single AB of Isley's army before dying herself. One can say Riful was ruthless here, but history has shown that many rulers who were ruthless - triumphed over their enemies.

But Riful is not overly concerned and occupied with the threat of Isley's invasion.

She kept her promise to Clare, at the end. And she even let them go, on the account that they had really tried their best against Duff, and she was impressed with them. It can be argued that Riful sensed Alicia nearby and was disturbed by her presence, therefore not taking Galatea, Jean and Clare. Still, even if Alicia was there, Riful could still extend some of those tentacles of hers and grab all three before leaving at the speed she left. She let them off - not because they could overpower her, not because she had promised to let them off if they could defeat Duff - but because she was impressed by their efforts, and she wasn't totally obsessed with Isley's invasion threat.

I would've thought, having seen how well they fought together, Riful would have wanted all 3 of them even more, seeing as she wanted to form a powerful army of ABs. The trio were certainly able to hold their own against Duff - how much more, if they awakened?

I can't say much for the 7-year timeskip, since Isley had already gained control of the South and apparently, isn't taking any action in particular. The manga hasn't touched much on that yet. =/ He probably didn't consider Riful a threat now, but Riful still considered him as one. He sure had the power to eradicate her, power in the form of Priscilla. So it makes sense that she would be somewhat more desperate post 7 years.

And yeah, didn't realize Riful shared a similar name with a train station... :lol:

[nope]

more ambitious than selfish in my opinion, she just wants more territory and/or to rule the world . i can respect that. shes not evil, just miss understood. She wants to help the enslaved claymore by releasing them to a higher plain, she wants to stop the tyranny of the organization, and help the poor yoma and awakend being to survive in this world were they are persicuted just because they are answering to their instincts.

[SilentBuddhist]

Hehehe. Forgive me SilentBuddhist, but I'll have to go against you on certain points. :P But before that...

Yes, I agree Riful is evil and selfish. But only to a certain extent. She has not completely lost her morals and values. I'm taking the point of view of an outsider, lol. >_>



Nice definition that matches with my own, more or less. However, the definition of evil here, does not exactly tally with Riful. True, she heartlessly tortured Jean, and when Katea awakened, she ordered Duff to kill her, all so she could make an army that met her needs. And she is a child: all the things you pointed out do apply to her.

So now we look at it from a different view: Riful herself.

Riful would surely feel threatened by Isley. All the more now, since she's a mere kid. Isley's gathering an army himself, why, he could just barge into the West at any moment and claim her territory! She has to defend herself! She feels threatened, perhaps afraid even, that her territory will be seized by Isley. Now from her perspective, the only way to gather ABs would be to force Claymores to awaken. So that's what she does, with the help of Duff. She probably has some idea of how strong Isley's army is. I'm assuming that. =/

Awakened Beings who show that they are incapable of standing against the strength of Isley's army, which, say - are all above average, naturally will be killed. Riful doesn't want an army comprising of every AB she can get her hands on - she wants an army capable of holding its own against Isley and his army. One could even say she was strategic, from this perspective. She would rather choose an army of - say, 40 above average Awakened, rather than an army of 100 ABs, most of which are far too weak to hold their own against Isley's army.

To her, quality is far better than quantity - and that is true in most cases.

From Riful's perspective, killing Katea was like a mercy slaughter. After all, if Katea was going to die anyway, should Isley and Riful go to war, why keep her in the first place? She probably can't even take down a single AB of Isley's army before dying herself. One can say Riful was ruthless here, but history has shown that many rulers who were ruthless - triumphed over their enemies.

But Riful is not overly concerned and occupied with the threat of Isley's invasion.

She kept her promise to Clare, at the end. And she even let them go, on the account that they had really tried their best against Duff, and she was impressed with them. It can be argued that Riful sensed Alicia nearby and was disturbed by her presence, therefore not taking Galatea, Jean and Clare. Still, even if Alicia was there, Riful could still extend some of those tentacles of hers and grab all three before leaving at the speed she left. She let them off - not because they could overpower her, not because she had promised to let them off if they could defeat Duff - but because she was impressed by their efforts, and she wasn't totally obsessed with Isley's invasion threat.

I would've thought, having seen how well they fought together, Riful would have wanted all 3 of them even more, seeing as she wanted to form a powerful army of ABs. The trio were certainly able to hold their own against Duff - how much more, if they awakened?

I can't say much for the 7-year timeskip, since Isley had already gained control of the South and apparently, isn't taking any action in particular. The manga hasn't touched much on that yet. =/ He probably didn't consider Riful a threat now, but Riful still considered him as one. He sure had the power to eradicate her, power in the form of Priscilla. So it makes sense that she would be somewhat more desperate post 7 years.

And yeah, didn't realize Riful shared a similar name with a train station... :lol:
Hey, no harm done. If I make a mistake, I appreciate it when people let me know about it, rather than tell me at the last minute. I kind of found it hard to define evil, as it usually explains itself right away. In any case, your answer is very constructive, and it reminded me of a few points that I missed and potentially left out in my explanation. Once I decided she was evil and selfish, I left out, and never would have considered, that MAYBE Riful had Duff kill Katia to put her out of her misery.

You are definitely a very constructive member. We love it when members such as yourself join the forums, as it makes us happy to know that among the many new people that only come here to spam and waste posting space, there are those who are serious about the forums. Your posts are filled with meaning and are not spam. Keep up the constructive posts! :thumbup:

Okay, I've got school tomorrow, and my stomach is giving me a hard time, so I'll be up for about 15 minutes before going to bed.

[18fenrir]

"Riful is evil and is selfish."

Some points to ponder before you start

* Your stand? (Agree, agree partially, disagree, etc)
* From whose point of view are you taking? (Riful, Bestest Best Friend of Riful, Claymore, Humans, etc)
* Define evil and define selfish.
* Why is she so and why is she not? Examples?

I partially dis/agree. Riful is cute but that's not the reason why. :D

I'm going to try and take an interesting point of view. "Bestest Best Friend of Riful" aka Duff

Ok so let's define Evil and Selfish for an AB. A semi-powerful one at that.

Evil: Overpowering? Malicious intention expressed to self (especially to self) I can't imagine a lack of morals as a basis for evil since it is in the nature of AB to eat guts and kill off opposition. like say.. a territorial lion.

Selfish: well it doesn't differ with the common defination of selfish so there. Nothing new.

So is Riful evil? Nope. No evil intentions to Duff. In fact she shows kindness and love to him. So.. Riful = Saint :thumbup:

Selfish? While one can argue she would demand more out of him, she still accepts him for his traits (namely daftness and dense ... haha duff rhymes with daft) She has shown for his wellbeing in battle. So Nope here too.

But it would be interesting to elaborate on Riful. Why is it only Duff that accepted her. She is shown to be of equal capability with Isley so why hasn't she amassed an army of AB equal to Isley prior to the Pieta incident? Only normal yoma (or perhaps low levelled AB) was shown in the ep Clare stormed he cave. But that AB theory wouldn't be so since she pretty much negated that theory with the killing of Katea. Perhaps it is this quality of hers that made her a tough partner in which only Duff overcame?

Riful :thumbup::lol:

[Noelle]

Hey, no harm done.
(...)
You are definitely a very constructive member. Keep up the constructive posts! :thumbup:

:D Thanks. xD I'll do what I can, heh.

She wants to help the enslaved claymore by releasing them to a higher plain, she wants to stop the tyranny of the organization, and help the poor yoma and awakend being to survive in this world were they are persicuted just because they are answering to their instincts.

I don't recall Riful saying that directly in any chapter, but then and again, I haven't read the Witches' Maw arc in quite a while. =/ I thought she was simply trying to let Jean realize that Claymore or Awakened, it was only a matter of which side their consciousness lay on. I don't remember her wanting to help the ABs survive in this world... I mean, she killed Katea, even though it might've been out of mercy. If she wanted to help ABs survive in this world, she wouldn't have killed Katea. Nah, she was trying to form an army here.

She is shown to be of equal capability with Isley so why hasn't she amassed an army of AB equal to Isley prior to the Pieta incident?

I think it's because she only recently learnt of Isley's possible intention to invade the West and the South.

Why is it only Duff that accepted her.

Riful mentioned somewhere that he was the only one who could accept her without breaking... I always thought it was referring to how Duff was able to withstand her grip. =/

No evil intentions to Duff. In fact she shows kindness and love to him. So.. Riful = Saint :thumbsup:

LOL. Not really. She waited till Duff had his throat literally drilled out of him before saving him, if I remember correctly... not exactly love and kindness there, which girlfriend would watch her man get attacked to that extent without batting an eyelid? =X

[18fenrir]

I think it's because she only recently learnt of Isley's possible intention to invade the West and the South.

Nay.. If you do reread Witch's Maw, when Riful first related the story of Priscilla wreaking havoc in the north and Isley subduing her and developing the motive to start the war, she did mention that he gradually widen his territory and provoked a fight. Secondly, even if she had amassed an army like Isley, she wasn't actually bothered by demi-powerful ABs of Isley. She and Duff pretty much annihilated the half that ventured into her territory.


Riful mentioned somewhere that he was the only one who could accept her without breaking... I always thought it was referring to how Duff was able to withstand her grip. =/

I believe it to be so. But guess things have to be further elaborated :)

LOL. Not really. She waited till Duff had his throat literally drilled out of him before saving him, if I remember correctly... not exactly love and kindness there, which girlfriend would watch her man get attacked to that extent without batting an eyelid? =X

Well to this i say, there was a saying that a child can never guess his parent's intentions? It applies slightly in this case. Tough love probably :D She did help him against Galatea's yoki control technique and saved him in the end from dying when team Clare wanted to deliver the killing blow so that's still a plus for her.

[SilentBuddhist]

Riful mentioned somewhere that he was the only one who could accept her without breaking... I always thought it was referring to how Duff was able to withstand her grip. =/
I never really understood what she meant by "accepting me without breaking" either. I always thought it had to do with his thick and durable skin, or that he somehow met her needs.
LOL. Not really. She waited till Duff had his throat literally drilled out of him before saving him, if I remember correctly... not exactly love and kindness there, which girlfriend would watch her man get attacked to that extent without batting an eyelid? =X
But in the end, she had said herself "for better or worse, that's my man." I think that it points out that she loves him, to some extent, or maybe even pities him.

[nope]

riful never really said anything i wrote, im just providing a different way to view her behavioral problems >.>

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Hm, its been a while due to the bleach rp thread but it seems like our thread is still having topic problems but this one is pretty good.

I think Riful might just be lacking a sense of right and wrong. Her actions are done according to her sense of justice and what she believes is right. And I do believe she cares for duff to a certain extent (like he's just some giant teddy bear for her or something). Kind of like in those old cartoons where they say like "He may be an idiot, but he's my idiot"

[nope]

exactly, riful thinks what shes doing is right and has no concept of wrong. So this would not constitute 'mens rea'.

[Hynavian]

Still the gang did not show up polly due to exams or may be busy with real life stuff, so I have to do something about it and I have to comment on my own topic. I can take on my different stands but I'll be an extremist for now and adapt the stand where Riful is not evil and is not selfish.

To me, evil is when you do something immoral like murdering others without any intent, just for fun. Selfish is when others are not taken into account to things that one has done and whatever one has done is purely for one's own self.

Capturing and torturing other Claymores into awakening is purely a defensive act to protect oneself. Isley, the Abyssal one of the North, has already gathered many ABs and is preparing an army and who knows what he is up to. In terms of war potential, Riful is at the disadvantaged as she's down with Duff and herself only while Isley has Priscilla and a troop of ABs. If he's to march everyone to the West, Riful will be in trouble. Not only her, Duff will be in trouble too. Hence, it's a defensive act on her part to gather more useful allies and the best way to do so would be to awaken some Claymores herself. We can't claim that Riful is evil because of this as everyone has the right to survive. She's not evil, she merely reacted to an on-coming disaster and is merely trying to increase her chance of survivor by recruiting more allies.

It's also in her nature to eat guts. There's a difference between biology and wants. If one has to eat guts to survive, one just has to. If Riful can survive by eating grass (vegetarian) but she chose to eat guts, we can then say that she's evil as she chose to slaughter humans and to eat their guts. However, such is not a case. This is somehow similar to humans. Are humans evil cause they eat chickens? My answer is no as it just appears that we're at the top of the food chain. Likewise, Riful being at the top of the food chain is just reacting to her bological needs and where humans are the prey.

Riful at many instances did show that she's not selfish. She let Galatea, Jean and Clare off though she over-powered them and could have killed or made them her allies should she want to. This is a very good example of her not being selfish as she could just made them solely hers and letting the trio off would mean that she just lost 3 potential allies (where she would have no control over their future).

A selfish person would only take onself into consideration. Why did she bother to help Dulf against Isley's gang of awakened beings? Why did she ask Dulf to retreat with her upon seeing Priscilla? Riful could have just left Dulf to battle on his own or send Dulf on a sucide mission against Priscilla+Isley. Riful helped Dulf and even ensured his survival and that we cannot call her selfish.

****
PS: Topic changing soon.

[zdroj]

only one chapter after a very long wait??!!

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Capturing and torturing other Claymores into awakening is purely a defensive act to protect oneself. Isley, the Abyssal one of the North, has already gathered many ABs and is preparing an army and who knows what he is up to. In terms of war potential, Riful is at the disadvantaged as she's down with Duff and herself only while Isley has Priscilla and a troop of ABs. If he's to march everyone to the West, Riful will be in trouble. Not only her, Duff will be in trouble too. Hence, it's a defensive act on her part to gather more useful allies and the best way to do so would be to awaken some Claymores herself. We can't claim that Riful is evil because of this as everyone has the right to survive. She's not evil, she merely reacted to an on-coming disaster and is merely trying to increase her chance of survivor by recruiting more allies.

It's also in her nature to eat guts. There's a difference between biology and wants. If one has to eat guts to survive, one just has to. If Riful can survive by eating grass (vegetarian) but she chose to eat guts, we can then say that she's evil as she chose to slaughter humans and to eat their guts. However, such is not a case. This is somehow similar to humans. Are humans evil cause they eat chickens? My answer is no as it just appears that we're at the top of the food chain. Likewise, Riful being at the top of the food chain is just reacting to her bological needs and where humans are the prey.

Riful at many instances did show that she's not selfish. She let Galatea, Jean and Clare off though she over-powered them and could have killed or made them her allies should she want to. This is a very good example of her not being selfish as she could just made them solely hers and letting the trio off would mean that she just lost 3 potential allies (where she would have no control over their future).

A selfish person would only take onself into consideration. Why did she bother to help Dulf against Isley's gang of awakened beings? Why did she ask Dulf to retreat with her upon seeing Priscilla? Riful could have just left Dulf to battle on his own or send Dulf on a sucide mission against Priscilla+Isley. Riful helped Dulf and even ensured his survival and that we cannot call her selfish.

****
PS: Topic changing soon.

Thesis - Through a different interpretation, one could say that all of the following, including her reason for torturing Claymores, her need for guts, and her reason for saving dulf were all done so that she could achieve her own needs.

1st arguement - hmmm...can't really think of an arguement...Riful may be trying to defend herself from Isely's forces, but by torturing other claymore's she is displaying her uncaring nature, thinking only for what can benefit her. She tosses the unwanted or "weak" Ab like garbage, having Dulf kill them without a second thought. Most Likly Isely also tortures Claymores to force them to awaken but the famous saying "two wrongs don't make a right" proves that Riful is still abiding the definition of "wrong" thus, evil...(terrible arguement but its the best I could do)

2nd arguement - I am positive there are MUCH tastier things in this world then guts....things that do not have intelligent thought such as animals...we eat chickens because they are considered inferrior. Likewise, we refrain fom killing dolphins because they are considered "smart" Riful and other Ab on the short end of the stick, prey on a species capable of thought, emotions, fear....humans...a species that derives its greatness from past inventors, scientists, leaders. To feed off these beings is like attempting to bestow upon an undeserved fate to a civilized society...(my arguement kind of turned into rambling by the end but you get the point)

3rd arguement - the main reason Riful decided not to force clare and Galatea to awaken was because she thought she could let them grow stronger and when she finally did force them to awaken, she could get the highest result just by letting them mature a few years. Not only that, but this is also beneficial towards her goal of conquering Isely and his side. This is showing that she is thinking for herself

4th arguement - One reason Riful decided to save duff was to save his signifigance because he was the only AB on her side. Like you stated, Riful only has dulf and were he to die, then she would lose a great deal of attack power creating a weakness that Isely could use. The second reason being that Dulf proved to be useful for her own purposes. He was strong and was a good tool and losing this tool would also hinder her chances of achieving victory in the war between the abyssal ones. Once again, thinking solely for her own needs.

Closing statement - As stated, Riful could have simply been looking for a way to help herself and in doing so lead to her actions and protection of Dulf.

-----------------
I could write an essay out of this.......

[Hynavian]

-----------------
I could write an essay out of this.......

That' the reason I chose this topic as one can argue it from many POV but the others did not comment so far :'(

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Well I edited my first and second arguement so that they weren't so crappy....

and I agree with some of your points, but I was showing how easily a debate could be formed...

[Noelle]

2nd arguement - I am positive there are MUCH tastier things in this world then guts....things that do not have intelligent thought such as animals...we eat chickens because they are considered inferrior. Likewise, we refrain fom killing dolphins because they are considered "smart" Riful and other Ab on the short end of the stick, prey on a species capable of thought, emotions, fear....humans...a species that derives its greatness from past inventors, scientists, leaders. To feed off these beings is like attempting to bestow upon an undeserved fate to a civilized society...(my arguement kind of turned into rambling by the end but you get the point)

Yeah, I think I get the point xD. The point is that Riful didn't have a choice to refrain from eating guts. Yoma feed on human guts. Riful was a Claymore. Claymores are half-Yoma, half-human. When Claymores Awaken, the Yoma aspect becomes dominant. So the need to feed on human guts - a Yoma aspect - becomes uncontrollable and instinctive.

My argument is, AB or Yoma - the dominant aspect is the Yoma aspect, so, they may feed off humans, but it is purely natural to them... it's just like how a cat feeds on a mouse. If a mouse was as civilized as us humans, say, a cat would still be preying on them. It would still be eating them - because that's their instinct, and their natural food.

4th arguement - One reason Riful decided to save duff was to save his signifigance because he was the only AB on her side. Like you stated, Riful only has dulf and were he to die, then she would lose a great deal of attack power creating a weakness that Isely could use. The second reason being that Dulf proved to be useful for her own purposes. He was strong and was a good tool and losing this tool would also hinder her chances of achieving victory in the war between the abyssal ones. Once again, thinking solely for her own needs.

I disagree... she did mention that no matter what, he was her man, or something along those lines. I think she does have some degree of feeling for Duff. I've forgotten who pointed that out to me in the previous pages, lol, but I stand corrected on that. :D

[SilentBuddhist]

Still the gang did not show up polly due to exams or may be busy with real life stuff, so I have to do something about it and I have to comment on my own topic. I can take on my different stands but I'll be an extremist for now and adapt the stand where Riful is not evil and is not selfish.

To me, evil is when you do something immoral like murdering others without any intent, just for fun. Selfish is when others are not taken into account to things that one has done and whatever one has done is purely for one's own self.

Capturing and torturing other Claymores into awakening is purely a defensive act to protect oneself. Isley, the Abyssal one of the North, has already gathered many ABs and is preparing an army and who knows what he is up to. In terms of war potential, Riful is at the disadvantaged as she's down with Duff and herself only while Isley has Priscilla and a troop of ABs. If he's to march everyone to the West, Riful will be in trouble. Not only her, Duff will be in trouble too. Hence, it's a defensive act on her part to gather more useful allies and the best way to do so would be to awaken some Claymores herself. We can't claim that Riful is evil because of this as everyone has the right to survive. She's not evil, she merely reacted to an on-coming disaster and is merely trying to increase her chance of survivor by recruiting more allies.

It's also in her nature to eat guts. There's a difference between biology and wants. If one has to eat guts to survive, one just has to. If Riful can survive by eating grass (vegetarian) but she chose to eat guts, we can then say that she's evil as she chose to slaughter humans and to eat their guts. However, such is not a case. This is somehow similar to humans. Are humans evil cause they eat chickens? My answer is no as it just appears that we're at the top of the food chain. Likewise, Riful being at the top of the food chain is just reacting to her bological needs and where humans are the prey.

Riful at many instances did show that she's not selfish. She let Galatea, Jean and Clare off though she over-powered them and could have killed or made them her allies should she want to. This is a very good example of her not being selfish as she could just made them solely hers and letting the trio off would mean that she just lost 3 potential allies (where she would have no control over their future).

A selfish person would only take onself into consideration. Why did she bother to help Dulf against Isley's gang of awakened beings? Why did she ask Dulf to retreat with her upon seeing Priscilla? Riful could have just left Dulf to battle on his own or send Dulf on a sucide mission against Priscilla+Isley. Riful helped Dulf and even ensured his survival and that we cannot call her selfish.

****
PS: Topic changing soon.
Heheh, sorry Prezzy, it's a great argument, but I may have to go against you on a few things, basically the same things TZ argued.
2nd arguement - I am positive there are MUCH tastier things in this world then guts....things that do not have intelligent thought such as animals...we eat chickens because they are considered inferrior. Likewise, we refrain fom killing dolphins because they are considered "smart" Riful and other Ab on the short end of the stick, prey on a species capable of thought, emotions, fear....humans...a species that derives its greatness from past inventors, scientists, leaders. To feed off these beings is like attempting to bestow upon an undeserved fate to a civilized society...(my arguement kind of turned into rambling by the end but you get the point)
Agreed. There are plenty of animals that consist of the same organs we do. While they may not be "incapable of thought", we are still capable of a higher plane of intelligence, and therefore we are placed at the top of the food chain. We eat chickens because they are abundant in numbers and are inferior to us--it's in our nature to eat them. However, they still are composed of the same "guts" as us, and with that said, there should be no problem for ABs and yoma to eat the animals that have the same guts as us. Not only that, but some of those animals are potentially bigger than us, like the horse or the bear. I think that if an animal has the same guts as us, an AB or a yoma should be able to eat it and still survive.
3rd arguement - the main reason Riful decided not to force clare and Galatea to awaken was because she thought she could let them grow stronger and when she finally did force them to awaken, she could get the highest result just by letting them mature a few years. Not only that, but this is also beneficial towards her goal of conquering Isely and his side. This is showing that she is thinking for herself
Agreed again. With her own words, Riful stated that "Since you have already taken a step to the path of awakening, I'll let you go for awhile, and let you grow stronger...so you can become an even better awakened." Well, not exactly with her own words, but the concept is still the same. She's milking those two for all their worth by letting them go for a few years. It's hard to argue against reacting to the situation and defending herself, but she still thinks of meeting her needs, even if she has to wait a few years.
4th arguement - One reason Riful decided to save duff was to save his signifigance because he was the only AB on her side. Like you stated, Riful only has dulf and were he to die, then she would lose a great deal of attack power creating a weakness that Isely could use. The second reason being that Dulf proved to be useful for her own purposes. He was strong and was a good tool and losing this tool would also hinder her chances of achieving victory in the war between the abyssal ones. Once again, thinking solely for her own needs.
Actually, this is where I disagree. She said "For better or worse, he's my man." I don't think that would be said without some concern and care for his safety, which she does seem to show. "Of all the yoma, you were the only one who could accept me without breaking." Another sign that she cares about him, but not as a tool.

I think I'll change my stance on this, that maybe she isn't evil and selfish, but maybe just lacking the knowledge between right and wrong.

[Hynavian]

Heheh, sorry Prezzy, it's a great argument, but I may have to go against you on a few things, basically the same things TZ argued.

No problem. By the way, TZ is arguing on different grounds as he's showing another way of arguing things by using my points:devil: TZ you lazy bum, using my points for your own thesis.

However according to your thesis where Riful did everything because she's selfish (her own needs), I'll throw in one argument to give you a headache. Try to catch the ball TZ :lol:

2nd arguement - I am positive there are MUCH tastier things in this world then guts....things that do not have intelligent thought such as animals...we eat chickens because they are considered inferrior. Likewise, we refrain fom killing dolphins because they are considered "smart" Riful and other Ab on the short end of the stick, prey on a species capable of thought, emotions, fear....humans...a species that derives its greatness from past inventors, scientists, leaders. To feed off these beings is like attempting to bestow upon an undeserved fate to a civilized society...(my arguement kind of turned into rambling by the end but you get the point)

Your above is true if it's according to your thesis but if I'm to take your 2nd argument and put into mine, it'll be easily countered in the first place. To make myself clearer, I'm actually trying to bring in that there's a difference between biology and needs. You're taking the side of the "needs" while I'm arguing on the basis of "biology". If you're a spider, you won't survive if you're given carrots. Humans won't survive if you're to eat metal for meals. Likewise for Awakened Beings. I'm arguing on the basis that once you're an AB, the whole biology of the person changes and the supplements needed to maintain such a biology also changes. It's just that chickens and cows are no longer suitable food anymore and the best energy supplier would be human guts. Hence, once again pushing my point that Riful is not selfish as she has a right to survive and to eat guts.

Lol, there will be no end to such a topic :eban:

[SilentBuddhist]

No problem. By the way, TZ is arguing on different grounds as he's showing another way of arguing things by using my points:devil: TZ you lazy bum, using my points for your own thesis.

However according to your thesis where Riful did everything because she's selfish (her own needs), I'll throw in one argument to give you a headache. Try to catch the ball TZ :lol:



Your above is true if it's according to your thesis but if I'm to take your 2nd argument and put into mine, it'll be easily countered in the first place. To make myself clearer, I'm actually trying to bring in that there's a difference between biology and needs. You're taking the side of the "needs" while I'm arguing on the basis of "biology". If you're a spider, you won't survive if you're given carrots. Humans won't survive if you're to eat metal for meals. Likewise for Awakened Beings. I'm arguing on the basis that once you're an AB, the whole biology of the person changes and the supplements needed to maintain such a biology also changes. It's just that chickens and cows are no longer suitable food anymore and the best energy supplier would be human guts. Hence, once again pushing my point that Riful is not selfish as she has a right to survive and to eat guts.

Lol, there will be no end to such a topic :eban:

Ack...that's a lot to swallow...you really can argue just about anything with this...I'm starting to get a headache! :lol: :lol:

What you're saying is true, chickens are much smaller than humans, and are therefore a smaller energy supply. It's only natural to try and eat what works best for you. I can accept that. But what about animals that are larger than us yet basically have the same guts, like a bear? Wouldn't those be a better energy source? They have blood, kidneys, lungs, intestines...and all that stuff yoma and ABs can't get enough of :lol: If it's a simple change of biology, I'll accept that. But if a bear or a horse has the same guts as us, and are larger than humans, why don't the yoma and AB eat those instead? I don't think it's that much different from when a lizard (I have a couple bearded dragons, and I'm using them as an example) whose main source of food is normally crickets, but they can still survive if they eat worms instead.

[Apple]

Maybe people taste better...

[Tensa Zangetsu]

However according to your thesis where Riful did everything because she's selfish (her own needs), I'll throw in one argument to give you a headache. Try to catch the ball TZ :lol:



Your above is true if it's according to your thesis but if I'm to take your 2nd argument and put into mine, it'll be easily countered in the first place. To make myself clearer, I'm actually trying to bring in that there's a difference between biology and needs. You're taking the side of the "needs" while I'm arguing on the basis of "biology". If you're a spider, you won't survive if you're given carrots. Humans won't survive if you're to eat metal for meals. Likewise for Awakened Beings. I'm arguing on the basis that once you're an AB, the whole biology of the person changes and the supplements needed to maintain such a biology also changes. It's just that chickens and cows are no longer suitable food anymore and the best energy supplier would be human guts. Hence, once again pushing my point that Riful is not selfish as she has a right to survive and to eat guts.

Lol, there will be no end to such a topic :eban:


To tell you the truth - I was simply providing counter-examples...my arguements aren't actually my own thought. Though I agree with SB's argument on animals with identical or at least smiler compositions to those of a human. For example (guts would refer to intestines and stomach right?) a cow has four stomachs, wouldn't that make it a more suitable prey for an AB? Your example about if humans ate metal is invalid because metal is made from a completely different composition then that which is needed for a human's survival. And also, if taken away the habit to prey on humans, it is quite possible to convert to eating other forms of meat (this sentence sounded confusing). A lion accustomed to eating live prey in the wild can be domesticated so that is only feeds on certain kinds of food despite its natural instincts to hunt. This is one way that shows it is possible to defy natural instincts. Hypothetically speaking, if humans preyed on other humans because it was instinct then would they? Most likely not because that would throw society into turmoil. If it was absolutely required for survival that is a difference. There is a difference between what is necessary to survive and what is natural instinct to do.....(god this argument sucked)

This is contradicting myself, but its true that humans are in abundance and overpopulating. Were consuming 30% more of Earths resources then it can produce each year (wow we are destroying this world aren't we?) So yeah, were the AB to prey on other animals, it would probably throw the whole food chain off....were this an actual debate then I wouldn't say that cause contradicting yourself is the worst thing you can do in an arguement =P

*ball comes flying at TZ, whacks him across the head....*

fun fact - did you know that one reason dolphins are considered intelligent is because they are the ONLY other species besides humans that have sex for pleasure rather then simply reproduction purposes....

[Hynavian]

To tell you the truth - I was simply providing counter-examples...my arguements aren't actually my own thought. Though I agree with SB's argument on animals with identical or at least smiler compositions to those of a human. For example (guts would refer to intestines and stomach right?) a cow has four stomachs, wouldn't that make it a more suitable prey for an AB? Your example about if humans ate metal is invalid because metal is made from a completely different composition then that which is needed for a human's survival. And also, if taken away the habit to prey on humans, it is quite possible to convert to eating other forms of meat (this sentence sounded confusing). A lion accustomed to eating live prey in the wild can be domesticated so that is only feeds on certain kinds of food despite its natural instincts to hunt. This is one way that shows it is possible to defy natural instincts. Hypothetically speaking, if humans preyed on other humans because it was instinct then would they? Most likely not because that would throw society into turmoil. If it was absolutely required for survival that is a difference. There is a difference between what is necessary to survive and what is natural instinct to do.....(god this argument sucked)

This is contradicting myself, but its true that humans are in abundance and overpopulating. Were consuming 30% more of Earths resources then it can produce each year (wow we are destroying this world aren't we?) So yeah, were the AB to prey on other animals, it would probably throw the whole food chain off....

Oh no, you just contradicted yourself and supported my stand that there's a difference between biology (necessity) and desire (natural instinct in your case). You argument is that predators in general are instinctual animals and that's different from what I'm arguing. I agree with you that animals are spurred by instincts at times but it biology is different. You have to eat it to survive. You can surely change a habit of an animal like that of a lion but looks what it's eating. It's still eating meat right? The difference is whether it is dead or alive.

Hence, coming to my biological argument once again where ABs have (it's a must eat or they will die state) to eat humans as it's just that humans are needed to keep them going. Try as hard as you can but a rose plant won't be eating cows and spiders won't eat carrots. There are specific food stocks that they must consume and cannot live without. ABs are once again not humans anymore and are no longer half-breds. They are full fledged monsters with a completely different biology. The fuel needed to run their bodies are different and humans are their fuels. Thus, Riful is not evil as she just doing what she can to survive, as an awakened being. (Geezz....I'm also coming back to support my Riful point).

Actually I know this topic is coming to an end soon and a new topic will arise but I will like to comment that it's great to have you all around. Chirstmas is coming soon and do you all have any plans? I'm planning to do some mass shopping to fill my needs. lol :thumbup:

fun fact - did you know that one reason dolphins are considered intelligent is because they are the ONLY other species besides humans that have sex for pleasure rather then simply reproduction purposes....

Cool, I didn't know about this. Learnt some new stuff today. Thanks TZ :p

What you're saying is true, chickens are much smaller than humans, and are therefore a smaller energy supply. It's only natural to try and eat what works best for you. I can accept that. But what about animals that are larger than us yet basically have the same guts, like a bear? Wouldn't those be a better energy source? They have blood, kidneys, lungs, intestines...and all that stuff yoma and ABs can't get enough of :lol: If it's a simple change of biology, I'll accept that. But if a bear or a horse has the same guts as us, and are larger than humans, why don't the yoma and AB eat those instead? I don't think it's that much different from when a lizard (I have a couple bearded dragons, and I'm using them as an example) whose main source of food is normally crickets, but they can still survive if they eat worms instead.

Your argument is challenging. Ack...I had to think things through before posting. :lol:

Maybe I can just argue that the other animals are close but are not humans afterall. Regardless of how gigantic or how minute the animal is, it's not human afterall and humans are just the food ABs eat. To further support my theory, there has not been any chapters in Claymores where awakened beings eat fruits or other animals beside humans to survive. Hence, humans seem to be their only source of food. If Isley starts eating an apple, your point will then be fully substantiated.

I just realised that none of us took the stand that Riful is evil and is selfish. Anyone wants to give it a try?

[SilentBuddhist]

Actually I know this topic is coming to an end soon and a new topic will arise but I will like to comment that it's great to have you all around. Chirstmas is coming soon and do you all have any plans? I'm planning to do some mass shopping to fill my needs. lol :thumbup:
Christmas? Is it December where you are? It's still November 21 here, going to be 22 real soon. Speaking of tomorrow, here's for all you Americans out there: Happy Thanksgiving! Enjoy those turkeys and mashed potatoes while they last, I'll be going on an after-dark raid for Thanksgiving leftovers tomorrow night :devil:
Your argument is challenging. Ack...I had to think things through before posting. :lol:

Maybe I can just argue that the other animals are close but are not humans afterall. Regardless of how gigantic or how minute the animal is, it's not human afterall and humans are just the food ABs eat. To further support my theory, there has not been any chapters in Claymores where awakened beings eat fruits or other animals beside humans to survive. Hence, humans seem to be their only source of food. If Isley starts eating an apple, your point will then be fully substantiated.

I just realised that none of us took the stand that Riful is evil and is selfish. Anyone wants to give it a try?
Lol, I managed to confuse the Prezzy!! :eban: :eban: :eban: :eban: :eban:

Coming on to Isley eating an apple, don't they (Isley and Pris) eat what Raki cooks for them, for the sake of hiding their identities? If I had to eat something that isn't human to hide my identity as an AB, I'd do it.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Maybe I can just argue that the other animals are close but are not humans afterall. Regardless of how gigantic or how minute the animal is, it's not human afterall and humans are just the food ABs eat. To further support my theory, there has not been any chapters in Claymores where awakened beings eat fruits or other animals beside humans to survive. Hence, humans seem to be their only source of food. If Isley starts eating an apple, your point will then be fully substantiated.

Or we can just simply say that if AB's did in fact eat other things such as cows and bears or whatever fruits and berries they may come by and lived in blissful harmony with humans, then this manga would lose all plot and we would stop reading it in general....there we have it folks, the reason AB's eat humans, BAM! :thumbup:

[SilentBuddhist]

There'd be no Claymore if ABs didn't eat humans? Now THAT, I can't argue with...unless I find a way to prove you wrong lol.

[Hynavian]

Christmas? Is it December where you are? It's still November 21 here, going to be 22 real soon. Speaking of tomorrow, here's for all you Americans out there: Happy Thanksgiving! Enjoy those turkeys and mashed potatoes while they last, I'll be going on an after-dark raid for Thanksgiving leftovers tomorrow night :devil:

Nope it's not december yet but I'm already in the mood for christmas. I love to eat lots of food and to receive presents on christmas. It's also much more fun to walk around the place during the christmas season as shops and roads will be nicely decoreated. :p Oh no...it's still november now :o


Lol, I managed to confuse the Prezzy!! :eban: :eban: :eban: :eban: :eban:

Now you're confusing me with your eban dance :thumbup:
I hope Isley and Priscilla don't eat Raki during their meals.


EDIT: What's thanksgiving day? Do you all give presents to each other on that day?

[SilentBuddhist]

Nope it's not december yet but I'm already in the mood for christmas. I love to eat lots of food and to receive presents on christmas. It's also much more fun to walk around the place during the christmas season as shops and roads will be nicely decoreated. :p Oh no...it's still november now :o
Getting into the Christmas spirit already? Me too...I just drank some egg nog (the alcoholic type) for the blissful moment :lol:
Now you're confusing me with your eban dance :thumbup:
I hope Isley and Priscilla don't eat Raki during their meals.
:lol:

You can tell I'm in a good mood...*hiccup!*Um! You didn't hear that...

Wonder how close Raki is with Pris right now...it might be worse than what we and Clare imagined, if ya know what I mean ;)

Thanksgiving...is the third Thursday of November...which is when the English pilgrims first settled into the soon-to-be America, and feasted with the Native Americans (i.e Indians), and ate Turkey, and mashed potatoes, and pumpkin bread and pumpkin pie...you don't get presents, sadly, but you get a hearty and long-lasting meal, and a full week off from work or school. It lasts awhile, so it can be enjoyable. At least, that's what I remember it to be. It's basically an American-celebrated holiday.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

There'd be no Claymore if ABs didn't eat humans? Now THAT, I can't argue with...unless I find a way to prove you wrong lol.

The only way to prove me wrong is if that actually happened in the manga....it would be something along the lines of.......
-----------------------------
Dulf: "Hey Riful what are we having for dinner tonight?"

Riful: "It's thanksgiving, were having roast turky silly"

Dulf: "Oh really? Golly good gee willikers!"

Riful: "By the way, we invited Isely's and priss over for dinner"

Isely: "were here! Happy thanksgiving, I brought chesnuts!"

Riful: "Isely ol' chap its been ages! How are the kids?....."
-------------------
it hurt just typing this...tell me truthfully that you would still read claymore if this happened...

[SilentBuddhist]

The only way to prove me wrong is if that actually happened in the manga....it would be something along the lines of.......
-----------------------------
Dulf: "Hey Riful what are we having for dinner tonight?"

Riful: "It's thanksgiving, were having roast turky silly"

Dulf: "Oh really? Golly good gee willikers!"

Riful: "By the way, we invited Isely's and priss over for dinner"

Isely: "were here! Happy thanksgiving, I brought chesnuts!"

Riful: "Isely ol' chap its been ages! How are the kids?....."
-------------------
it hurt just typing this...tell me truthfully that you would still read claymore if this happened...
I don't know if It's relevant to the story, but it'd make a great comic strip, like the ones Prezzo did before. Just reading it is funny in itself. :lol:

If it were part of the main story...um...it'd still be funny, but completely unnecessary. But of course I'd still read it.

[Hynavian]

Thanksgiving...is the third Thursday of November...which is when the English pilgrims first settled into the soon-to-be America, and feasted with the Native Americans (i.e Indians), and ate Turkey, and mashed potatoes, and pumpkin bread and pumpkin pie...you don't get presents, sadly, but you get a hearty and long-lasting meal, and a full week off from work or school. It lasts awhile, so it can be enjoyable. At least, that's what I remember it to be. It's basically an American-celebrated holiday.

Cool! One week off from school. It's great, I like this tyoe of holiday where you get a week off just to eat. And I'm a fan of fried chicken so I'll stuff myself full of food if there's a table full of them.

The only way to prove me wrong is if that actually happened in the manga....it would be something along the lines of.......
-----------------------------
Dulf: "Hey Riful what are we having for dinner tonight?"

Riful: "It's thanksgiving, were having roast turky silly"

Dulf: "Oh really? Golly good gee willikers!"

Riful: "By the way, we invited Isely's and priss over for dinner"

Isely: "were here! Happy thanksgiving, I brought chesnuts!"

Riful: "Isely ol' chap its been ages! How are the kids?....."
-------------------
it hurt just typing this...tell me truthfully that you would still read claymore if this happened...

If the above happens, it'll turn into some shojo story where the antagonists all make peace and restore love to the world. Dulf and Riful would marry and live happily ever while Priscilla and Isley retired from the world and hide in the Antartics to live a peaceful life. Humans will rebel as they found the truth to the organisation and they will rebel and make the organisation collapse. After which Yomas and humans co-exit side by side just like next door neighbours and where Yomas live on vegetation and take up garden planting as their life-long hobbies. Clare will marry Raki and Miria retires to become a head mistress of a holy city. Galatea will join the social welfare organisation where she will aid the blind and do charitable services for kids......

Running out of peaceful ideas...:lol:

[SilentBuddhist]

Cool! One week off from school. It's great, I like this tyoe of holiday where you get a week off just to eat. And I'm a fan of fried chicken so I'll stuff myself full of food if there's a table full of them.
It's roasted turkey...but whatever :lol: It's a dinner that literally lasts for days, I'll already be making turkey and swiss sandwiches for next week when it's over. :lol: After that, I usually just set up the Christmas tree starting December, as the longer it's on display at my place the better.
If the above happens, it'll turn into some shojo story where the antagonists all make peace and restore love to the world. Dulf and Riful would marry and live happily ever while Priscilla and Isley retired from the world and hide in the Antartics to live a peaceful life. Humans will rebel as they found the truth to the organisation and they will rebel and make the organisation collapse. After which Yomas and humans co-exit side by side just like next door neighbours and where Yomas live on vegetation and take up garden planting as their life-long hobbies. Clare will marry Raki and Miria retires to become a head mistress of a holy city. Galatea will join the social welfare organisation where she will aid the blind and do charitable services for kids......

Running out of peaceful ideas...:lol:
Shoujo isn't my thing...maybe I should take back what I said... :lol:

Well, it was almost as corny as the anime ending, where everyone, even Pris who was about to die then, was walking away in the sunlight with smiles on all of their faces. ALMOST as corny :lol:

[Hynavian]

NEW TOPIC:

"Luciela is not the weakest, luck is just not on her side."

Points to consider

Your stand?
In which area? (physical, mental, etc)
Who are you comparing her with?
Is she lucky or is she not?
Evidences
Does luck plays a part or are there other factors?
What other factors? If none, how did luck play a part in her fate?


DO YOU KNOW

Earlier the topic is on Riful of the West, now it's on Luciela of the South. Let's have a combo in the "Do You Know" section as I introduce South-West Japan to all. Cause I can't find anything on Luciela :o

Hot-Spring Baths (Onsen - 温泉)

"In Kyushua island (Japan's 3rd largest island) and in the Oita prefecture, "Beppu is one of Japan's most famous hot spring resorts, producing more hot spring water than any other resort in the country.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/BeppuStreets.jpg
You can tell the place is for onsen by just looking at the hot steam coming out from the streets in Beppu!

Beppu offers an unmatched range of baths to be enjoyed, including ordinary hot water baths, mud baths, sand baths and steam baths. In addition, the Hells of Beppu are several spectacular hot springs for viewing rather than bathing."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/ChinoikeJigokuBloodPondHell.jpg
The reknown Chinoikei Jigoku ("Blood Pond Hell")

"Natural hot springs (onsen) are numerous and highly popular across Japan. Every region of the country has its share of hot springs and resort towns, which come with them.

Indoor & Outdoor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/Onsen1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/Onsen2.jpg

There are many types of hot springs, distinguished by the minerals dissolved in the water. Different minerals provide different health benefits, and all hot springs are supposed to have a relaxing effect on your body and mind.

Hot spring baths come in many varieties, indoors and outdoors, gender separated and mixed, developed and undeveloped. Many hot spring baths belong to a ryokan, while others are public bath houses."

Researched by Hynavian; Help from wiki, answers.com, pictures from japan-guide.

****
PS: One of the enjoyments in life...:lol:

[Noelle]

WOW. I can see why Luciela chose to reside in the south lol. HOT SPRINGS! :thumbup:

Anyway, that's a difficult topic to elaborate on... let's see what I can dig up from a rusty memory of Luciela. >_>

Luciela... she was the last of the three Abyssals to settle in an area. She was also the last Abyssal to Awaken (until Alicia, that is, but Alicia isn't counted, is she?), so that in itself is a handicap. She has far lesser experience than Isley and Riful, who may have each lived for centuries - I don't know - have, with her abilities, potential and the likes.

But when she fought with Isley, she hid two of her tails under her long skirt, without Isley's notice. It must have been quite a feat for her to hide those tails from him. Still, she managed. However, she still lost to him in the end, so my conclusion is...

... that Luciela is the weakest of the Abyssals, but not that luck isn't on her side - it's just a carefully thought up plan by Isley, and maybe her self-confidence, that foiled her. Surely, if Riful knew Isley was building an army and possibly wanted to invade the West - Luciela would have known as well. Also Isley had his own reasons for picking Luciela over Riful to fight solo - he must've figured that, having lesser experience than Riful, Luciela would be a slightly easier opponent than her. Furthermore, Luciela seemed pretty confident she could defeat him - and we all know overconfidence often leads to ruin.

[SilentBuddhist]

NEW TOPIC:

"Luciela is not the weakest, luck is just not on her side."

Points to consider

Your stand?
In which area? (physical, mental, etc)
Who are you comparing her with?
Is she lucky or is she not?
Evidences
Does luck plays a part or are there other factors?
What other factors? If none, how did luck play a part in her fate?


DO YOU KNOW

Earlier the topic is on Riful of the West, now it's on Luciela of the South. Let's have a combo in the "Do You Know" section as I introduce South-West Japan to all. Cause I can't find anything on Luciela :o

Hot-Spring Baths (Onsen - 温泉)

"In Kyushua island (Japan's 3rd largest island) and in the Oita prefecture, "Beppu is one of Japan's most famous hot spring resorts, producing more hot spring water than any other resort in the country.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/BeppuStreets.jpg
You can tell the place is for onsen by just looking at the hot steam coming out from the streets in Beppu!

Beppu offers an unmatched range of baths to be enjoyed, including ordinary hot water baths, mud baths, sand baths and steam baths. In addition, the Hells of Beppu are several spectacular hot springs for viewing rather than bathing."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/ChinoikeJigokuBloodPondHell.jpg
The reknown Chinoikei Jigoku ("Blood Pond Hell")

"Natural hot springs (onsen) are numerous and highly popular across Japan. Every region of the country has its share of hot springs and resort towns, which come with them.

Indoor & Outdoor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/Onsen1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/Japan/Onsen2.jpg

There are many types of hot springs, distinguished by the minerals dissolved in the water. Different minerals provide different health benefits, and all hot springs are supposed to have a relaxing effect on your body and mind.

Hot spring baths come in many varieties, indoors and outdoors, gender separated and mixed, developed and undeveloped. Many hot spring baths belong to a ryokan, while others are public bath houses."

Researched by Hynavian; Help from wiki, answers.com, pictures from japan-guide.

****
PS: One of the enjoyments in life...:lol:
Hot Springs...Now we know what Luciela did during her free time :lol:

It's a rather tough question to say exactly...she had too little page time, and we never saw her fight up to where she had to retreat. All we do know is that she was able to do a fair bit of damage to Isley before she nearly got herself killed. In other words, it's extremely difficult to find foolproof evidence on where she stood among the Abyssals.

Do I think she was unlucky? I think she was unlucky, in a few factors, and I think those factors are why Isley chose to kill Luciela and not Riful. I have those "Unlucky Factors" below:

1)She had no minions or followers. I don't have any evidence on this, but I found it strange that she never mentioned an army of any sort when she appeared. I thinks it's possible she never assembled an army when she heard of Isley's approach (and I'm quite sure she did hear about it). It would either come down to her being unlucky in finding any recruits for an army, or maybe she was lazy and it never crossed her mind, or that she was confident she could take on Isley by herself.

2)She was the last to awaken. In terms of age, Isley is the oldest, being over 500 years old, Riful is in the middle, and is probably well over 200 yrs old, and Luciela is the youngest, not even 100 yrs old. Isley awakened first, then Riful, then finally Luciela, who had awakened during the 76th Generation of Claymores, one generation before Teresa's. What it comes down to is that she was mentally the weakest (probably), and the most inexperienced of the Abyssals. Her timing of being last to awaken was bad luck.

With what we have on Luciela, I'd have to say she was either weaker or at the same level (at most) as Riful, who is weaker than Isley. On top of that, I think she was a little unlucky, but that bad luck was just enough to be the death of her. Sorry, this is all I have >.<
Beppu Onsen! :eban: *Writes down a "Places to Visit" list and adds Beppu Hot Spring Baths to the list*

[Tank]

In comparison to Riful and Isley i believe Luciela was weaker than them.. In my opinion she would be at the same level (maybe stronger) of Alicia at the moment. My reason to say this is that she probably doesn't has more than 100 years as an Abyssal and the way she Awakened resulted from a failed experiment of what Alicia and Beth can do perfectly (maybe not.. we only saw it once.. i have doubts in this matter)

Ofcourse she would be more than strong enough to deal with any regular AB hunting party as easily as Riful nor would she die so easily even if the opponents were that army used in north war (if she would die at all).

And no i don't think she had bad luck. She just wasn't smart enough... She didn't knew (aswell as Riful) the existance of Pris. At most she tought that he was bringing some stronger AB. In fact even if Luciela was actually older than Isley she probably couldn't surpass Pris anyway even less Pris and Isley... Ofcourse i'm assuming that Pris would actually help Isley but im pretty sure of that..

In the end i think she was to overconfident and careless by not caring to gather any army to back her up and for not realising she actually neded Riful help to defend her land.

In my opinion she should have bribed Pris with 50% of the hot-springs profit.. Anyway thts why Isley came south in the first place..

[Hynavian]

Who's the Claymore for the upcoming week?

Should we just go with Rafaela or any other nominees in mind? :thumbup:

[SilentBuddhist]

I'm with Raph this week.

Oh yeah...it's already over, but I still have more than enough Thanksgiving leftovers to make a few more dinners. Big, hearty dinners lol.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

sorry Hynavian, I'm waaaay too bogged down by school work to make a sufficient post on your topic at this moment but I will later on...

I wonder where has hollywoodlou gone off too? It seems like the only people who still post here since the beginning are you and me....heh, Luciela in a hot spring?!? :eek:....:thumbup:

[18fenrir]

"Luciela is not the weakest, luck is just not on her side."

Points to consider

Your stand?
In which area? (physical, mental, etc)
Who are you comparing her with?
Is she lucky or is she not?
Evidences
Does luck plays a part or are there other factors?
What other factors? If none, how did luck play a part in her fate?


Stand: Yes, as pointed by Tank, she is by far the latest to awaken and also a mistake caused by the Organisation.

Area of Weakness: Her ability is cool. Being able to spawn mouths on all parts of her body and eat ANYthing. If you consider such, Isley's body and Riful's body would not be safe against her. Unfortunately i guess what resulted in her death was lack of foresight, judgement and stamina. We all knew that Raphaela had something against her and that when Isley raised an army, one should have taken much more concern than her. All she did (presumably) was to went on out to meet Isley head on knowingly that he would fight her alone.

Let's compare all three.. Isley had Rigardo (before Clare killed him) and Priscilla (or more exactly, Priscilla had Isley but let's not divert) and Riful had Duff. Luciela? She was alone.. (shown thus far and ever) But anyhow that constitutes in her being a bad foresight.

Either she had too much confidence of being stronger (implied when she lost in tolerance of maintaining her form with her battle against Isley) But it also seemed that Isley was superior having cut off parts of Luciela and him being unable to chase/kill her. *i believe he did say "d*mn i was so close". That accounts for her lack of judgement.

As for tolerance, we all knew.. She couldn't maintain her body after fleeing the battle. Or it was because she couldn't maintain her body resulting in her fleeing the battle :P


Luck factor : Having resided in the South. Obviously she wouldn't be a match for Priscilla and considering it was just plain bad luck she chose to reside in a place where the strongest AB was born/intended to return to.

Additional Factor: Let's see.. I keep thinking. Raphaela didn't wanted to kill Luciela. Perhaps so.. And what Luciela said while persuading Raphaela to join her must have sparked something that made her kill her because it did seem weird for Raphaela to kill Luciela via "Back Breaking" I went back to look at it.. you'd notice that when Raphaela hugged Luciela, she was hugging normally. But when Luciela spoke of Isley stealing her lands and that she should awaken to fight alongside, it shows Raphaela's face in a stoic manner and her hand dropping to the spinal cord area of her back. So i'm kinda tempted to think that if Luciela had not spoken of such and acted in a human way to say that Isley tried to kill her and she tried to avoid him (whilst avoiding the conversation that she was an awakened being) she may now still live :)

ps. i vote Raphaela too

[Hynavian]

I'm with Raph this week.

Oh yeah...it's already over, but I still have more than enough Thanksgiving leftovers to make a few more dinners. Big, hearty dinners lol.

Ah......I want some too :p

sorry Hynavian, I'm waaaay too bogged down by school work to make a sufficient post on your topic at this moment but I will later on...

I wonder where has hollywoodlou gone off too? It seems like the only people who still post here since the beginning are you and me....heh, Luciela in a hot spring?!? :eek:....:thumbup:

No problem take your time with the topic. It's the exam season now and I think the others are busy with their studies. And Luciela sure is enjoying herself in the South while Isley+Priscilla are shivering in the Northern lands.

Votes so far:
Rafaela - 3 votes (Prezzy, SB, 18fenrir)

PS: I smell a walk-over as long as Prezzo don't try to change it :lol:

[MacenKrace]

Ah......I want some too :p

No problem take your time with the topic. It's the exam season now and I think the others are busy with their studies. And Luciela sure is enjoying herself in the South while Isley+Priscilla are shivering in the Northern lands.

Votes so far:
Rafaela - 3 votes (Prezzy, SB, 18fenrir)

PS: I smell a walk-over as long as Prezzo don't try to change it :lol:

My exam season starts in 2 months actually but i've been quite busy until now... I say Raphaela is a good choice.

[SilentBuddhist]

So Raph's votes are now up to four then.

It looks like Prezzo's influence is nonexistent now! Hehe :lol: Actually I'm starting to miss Prezzo and the rest of the gang, but their exams are important too.

Good luck guys! :thumbup:

[Hynavian]

So Raph's votes are now up to four then.

It looks like Prezzo's influence is nonexistent now! Hehe :lol: Actually I'm starting to miss Prezzo and the rest of the gang, but their exams are important too.

Good luck guys! :thumbup:

I will make Prezzo guard the toilet for a week when he comes back. (Demote him to janitor for a week)
And it's 4 votes for Raphaela and I'm closing the voting at 8am (in 8 hours time).

My exam is next week too but I'll log in now and then to post topics and may you guys keep the Claymore thread alive! :lol:

[SilentBuddhist]

Alright, good luck on your exams too :thumbup:

Actually remember when Prezzo said that comparing Galatea to Teresa was like comparing a toilet to a throne? I saw what you wrote and suddenly remembered that. Are you punishing him for what he said? :lol:

[Hynavian]

You reminded me about it.
I'll add one more week to his janitor duty. :thumbup:

I have so far done janitor duty twice and it's time for me to get back now :devil:

I think Luciela is the weakest Abyssal one in my opinion and is the most unlucky too. She had no allies and hence had the lowest war potential among the abyssal ones, fought and tied with Isley and had to run away from battle, met her sister who was after her life and we're still unsure of rafaela and her faith. Did they both attacked each other and die or who killed who? A terrible faith in my opinion :o

[SilentBuddhist]

You reminded me about it.
I'll add one more week to his janitor duty. :thumbup:

I have so far done janitor duty twice and it's time for me to get back now :devil:
:lol:
I think Luciela is the weakest Abyssal one in my opinion and is the most unlucky too. She had no allies and hence had the lowest war potential among the abyssal ones, fought and tied with Isley and had to run away from battle, met her sister who was after her life and we're still unsure of rafaela and her faith. Did they both attacked each other and die or who killed who? A terrible faith in my opinion :o
Rafaela broke Luciela's back, and Luciela died instantly, I think. I think she's either alive just living by herself like Irene, or, since killing Luciela was her only reason to live, she may have committed suicide.

[Hynavian]

Just found some news on Claymore manga.

Viz media will be releasing volume 11 of the English translated version sometime in march O_o (so one gets 4 months to start saving up!!! huh 4 months)

[SilentBuddhist]

I heard about that...March 2008...why does the U.S. have to wait so long? On well, the scans are here, so I won't miss out on anything.

[Hynavian]

Seems like raphaela won with a walk-over. It'll be Rafaela week then :p

[hollywoodlou]

You reminded me about it.
I'll add one more week to his janitor duty. :thumbup:

I have so far done janitor duty twice and it's time for me to get back now :devil:

I think Luciela is the weakest Abyssal one in my opinion and is the most unlucky too. She had no allies and hence had the lowest war potential among the abyssal ones, fought and tied with Isley and had to run away from battle, met her sister who was after her life and we're still unsure of rafaela and her faith. Did they both attacked each other and die or who killed who? A terrible faith in my opinion :o

That's "fate" prezzy, NOT "faith".

Sorry, no toilet duty for your prezzo. And the reason why I demoted you to janitor (twice actually hehe) was because you neglected your duties as prezzy.

But I'll let it slide this week that Raphy gets the nod. Good choice though. I won't lead the revolt on this one (there's still Jean, right?)

I took a break from the forum to hit the books and there's 2 more weeks of exams and it's killing me. Thank God for Thanksgiving weekend.

here's the lowdown: because supremecommander (UNLV), Awakened (USC) , Glasgow Celtic (ASU), and Max G are all college students on the West Coast , we met up in Las Vegas on Friday. It's just an hour drive from Hollywood minus traffic and we all ended up losing like $5000 on gambling and booze. It's like the Claymore version of Animal House. I needed to unwind to prep up for the 2nd half of finals week in December. Glasgow Celtic has this thick Scottish accent and it is funny that he's 2 year younger than me, but taller than the rest of us.

Im not sure if we're even going to post next week due to MORE univ./college exams coming up but I am sure to visit from time to time to check up.

Alrighty now: On Luciela...

Luciela wasn't exactly the weakest amongst the Abyssals. Remember that she stood toe to toe with Isley until the very end. I don't call that weakness when you have a superpower like Isley also on the ropes of a boxing match, and he didn't look good either.

Now unlike the other 3, she didn't need a henchman or assistant like Duff, or Isley to pris (vice versa). She just does things solo and that in itself is not a weakness, but a show of confidence. The tables could have turned if Raphy didn't kill her sister, and round 2 of that fight in the future would have interesting consequences.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

wow your first post in like a week and its at 2 in the morning? weird...*I'm nocturnal, which is weirder...*

I'm sad...I wanted to see your face and gamble it out in vegas...too bad I'm not getting my car back anytime soon....

[SilentBuddhist]

Booya. 300 posts in 3 weeks. I'll do what I can to try and keep the forum alive, but I'll be a bit busy myself for a few weeks. Gotta catch up on things I've missed while I was sick. Sad part is, I was recovering until the thing I'm sick with comes back with a vengeance.
That's "fate" prezzy, NOT "faith".

Sorry, no toilet duty for your prezzo. And the reason why I demoted you to janitor (twice actually hehe) was because you neglected your duties as prezzy.

But I'll let it slide this week that Raphy gets the nod. Good choice though. I won't lead the revolt on this one (there's still Jean, right?)

I took a break from the forum to hit the books and there's 2 more weeks of exams and it's killing me. Thank God for Thanksgiving weekend.

here's the lowdown: because supremecommander (UNLV), Awakened (USC) , Glasgow Celtic (ASU), and Max G are all college students on the West Coast , we met up in Las Vegas on Friday. It's just an hour drive from Hollywood minus traffic and we all ended up losing like $5000 on gambling and booze. It's like the Claymore version of Animal House. I needed to unwind to prep up for the 2nd half of finals week in December. Glasgow Celtic has this thick Scottish accent and it is funny that he's 2 year younger than me, but taller than the rest of us.

Im not sure if we're even going to post next week due to MORE univ./college exams coming up but I am sure to visit from time to time to check up.
Aw, lucky! I wish I was there. :lol: It must have been great to meet up and gamble and drink booze like that, save for losing the 5k. I'm in Colorado still, and as far as I know the only casinos around are in Denver, which is almost an hour drive, which I can't really afford to waste gas on, until I set up a job that I can earn a lot of money.

It's Raphaela week then! I'll look for a banner and av later on tonight.

[MacenKrace]

Sillent you have a big banner. Would you mind making it smaller?

[SuperBLU]

Yo i was just wondering but does anybody know how long the swords and the handles actually are? Like the one on the cover of Volume 3 with Teresa is freaking HUGE. Just curious.

[SilentBuddhist]

Sillent you have a big banner. Would you mind making it smaller?
It's the same size as my Rigardo banner from last time. Same height, same width. No one complained about the banner then. My banner's dimensions are the same as Prezzo's right now.
Yo i was just wondering but does anybody know how long the swords and the handles actually are? Like the one on the cover of Volume 3 with Teresa is freaking HUGE. Just curious.
No one really knows. There was never an actual measurement of the sword, at least, none that I'm aware of. But if I had to guess, I'd say the blade is about 4ft(120 cm), and the handle adds about 8 inches to 1 foot to the length of the sword.

Anyways, let's focus on the real conversation here: Was Luciela weak and/or unlucky?

There's more details on post #143.

[nope]

she put up a fight against isley, he was pretty tired afterwards. I dont think you could call her weak, she wasn't really that unlucky either. Probably just a problem with intelligence.

[Hynavian]

I have to rely on SB to hold the front for now as I'm having my exam week. And Prezzo though I'm busy I have been online and posting, so you have to do the toilet duty for a day due to your disappearing act ya :p It's good to know that you all meet up, geez....I can't make it even if I want to as that would mean that I have to fly to America :o (...tickets to america is expensive....I'm poor)

It's Rafaela week. My banner dimensions 500x150 (according to board rules) Macen, it has been the same size all along, maybe your monitor got bigger. :thumbup:

New topic up next.

[Hynavian]

NEW TOPIC
Do you agree that...

The organisation only sent either rebellious or half-awakened Claymores, 24 in total, to the North.


Point to help you get started

Your stand. Fully agree, partial agree, disagree, etc.
Why such a stand? Examples?
Key words "rebellious", "half awakened", "either...or", "only".
Are there exceptions?
Who fit the category and wasn't there? Who did not fit the category but was there?
Why were they present/absent?

DO YOU KNOW...
the Significance of the number "24"?

Fun Fact 1: In the Bible
24 is the number of letters of the alphabet that we find in the four Gospels.
The 24 Elders sat on 24 thrones. (Rv 4,4)
The 24 classifications of priests and cantors. (1 Ch 24,1-19; 1 Ch 25,9-31)
In the war led to Gath against Philistines, a warrior of great size had six fingers to each hand and to each foot, giving 24 fingers on the whole. (2 S 21,20; 1 Ch 20,6)

Fun Fact 2: In GeneralIt is the habit to represent the crown of the Virgin with 24 florets, containing six flowers (lily, crocus, violet, rose, sunflower, camomile), six stars and twelve precious stones borrowed from the Revelation and the Pectoral of Aaron.
In the Greek mythology, the giant Alcyoneus crushes under a rock 24 companions of Hercules before to be transpierced by an arrow of Athena.
According to the Gospel of Thomas, 24 prophets appeared in Israel before the arrival of the Jesus Christ. (log 52.2)
The 24 runes of the runic alphabet which each one has a divinatory senses and a magical power.

Fun Fact 3: Miscellaneous discovery
"(24) being a multiple of twelve, expresses in a higher form the same signification...It is the number associated with the heavenly government and worship, of which the earthly form in Israel was only a copy. We are told that both Moses and David ordered all things connected with the Tabernacle and Temple worship by direct revelation from God...And the sevenfold phrase (in Exo 40) "as the LORD commanded Moses" witnesses to the Divine ordering of all. It was so with the twenty-four courses of priests in the earthly Temple; these were formed on the "pattern of things in the heavens."

Those who regard them (them being the 24 priests) as representing the redeemed have done so on the supposed authority of Revelation 5:9; but they (they being the 24 priests) have been misled by some scribe who, in copying Revelation 5:9, altered certain words either to make the passage conform to Revelation 1:5, 6, or to support this very view. Thus it has been handed down that these twenty-four elders were redeemed, and are therefore glorified human beings."

My comments: I see a parallel where some of the Claymores were misled by the organisation and just went to the North without knowing why. Hope that I get the above right as I have done so major editing to it.

Fun Fact 4: Japanese seasons

Seasonal days - "Some days have special names to mark the change in seasons. The 24 Sekki (二十四節気 Nijūshi sekki) are days that divide a year in the Lunisolar calendar into twenty four equal sections. Zassetsu (雑節) is a collective term for the seasonal days other than the 24 Sekki. 72 Kō (七十二候 Shichijūni kō) days are made from dividing the 24 Sekki of a year further by three. Some of these names, such as Shunbun, Risshū and Toji, are still used quite frequently in everyday life in Japan."

The 24 Sekki
Risshun (立春): February 4 - Beginning of spring
Usui (雨水): February 19
Keichitsu (啓蟄): March 5 - awakening of hibernated (insects)
Shunbun (春分): March 20 - Vernal equinox, middle of spring
Seimei (清明): April 5
Kokuu (穀雨): April 20
Rikka (立夏): May 5 - Beginning of summer
Shōman (小満): May 21
Bōshu (芒種): June 6
Geshi (夏至): June 21 - Summer solstice, middle of summer
Shōsho (小暑): July 7
Taisho (大暑): July 23
Risshū (立秋): August 7 - Beginning of autumn
Shosho (処暑): August 23
Hakuro (白露): September 7
Shūbun (秋分): September 23 - Autumnal equinox, middle of autumn
Kanro (寒露): October 8
Sōkō (霜降): October 23
Rittō (立冬): November 7 - Beginning of winter
Shōsetsu (小雪): November 22
Taisetsu (大雪): December 7
Tōji (冬至): December 22 - Winter solstice, middle of winter
Shōkan (小寒): January 5 - a.k.a. 寒の入り (Kan no iri)
Daikan (大寒): January 20

My comments: See any parallels? Let me know if you do.

Researched & modified by me, sources: ridingthebest.com, biblestudy.org, answers.com

[SilentBuddhist]

Nah, MK was talking about MY banner, which according to my computer is 500w x 160h. But still, if you've looked at Prezzo's Priscilla banner (which is still there btw), it's the same dimensions.

Anyways...I'm all for this new topic.

My response: I don't agree that the Org sent only rebellious or half-awakened Claymores up North, even though there were some who fell into those categories who went there. Just because Claymores who are rebellious AND half-awakened (Miria, for instance) were sent there, there were some (Flora, Undine, etc.) who never crossed their limits nor have they (as far as we know) ever thought about rebelling when they first came to the North, only when Miria had revealed her plan to make as many Claymores survive as possible and have them abandon the Org.

The only Claymores we know of who had half awakened were Clare, Miria, Helen, Deneve, Jean, and (possibly, depending on your stance) Alicia. Save for Alicia, all the half-awakened Claymores were sent up North. However, the key word for your topic is "ONLY", not "ALL" half-awakened Claymores, and if it were all half-awakened Claymores, I could partially agree. But the key word is "ONLY", and that would not make sense, as another key word here is "24", and 5 (or 6, if you believe Alicia is half-awakened) clearly does NOT make 24. Alicia, if you agree that she is partially awakened, was not there because she was not yet completed with her training, and was too valuable to lose in the North.

As for "Rebellious" Claymores, I have to say that neither "ALL" or "ONLY" rebellious Claymores were sent North. It isn't all because Galatea was a rebellious Claymore, yet the people at the Org said themselves she was too valuable to lose, and besides, she was assigned to other missions at the time. And it isn't only because again, there's a key word in this topic, and it's 24. Possibly the number of rebellious Claymores doesn't reach 10, and even if it did, it doesn't make 24.

On to you're fun topics:

In America, there is actually a TV show that goes by the name of 24. I've never watched it, and I hardly remember the commercials about it, but I think it's a crime drama.

Hehe, I've been stuck at home for 3 weeks, so these fun facts keep my head thinking, to say the least. It looks like the seasons start for you a few weeks earlier than it does for America.

[Noelle]

Yo i was just wondering but does anybody know how long the swords and the handles actually are? Like the one on the cover of Volume 3 with Teresa is freaking HUGE. Just curious.

From a link in another forum, which led to some claymore exhibition in Japan I think, the claymores are 165cm long, and weigh around 7kg, though I'm not too sure about the weight.

Wahee, a new topic! :D

It isn't all because Galatea was a rebellious Claymore, yet the people at the Org said themselves she was too valuable to lose, and besides, she was assigned to other missions at the time.

There's something I've been wondering about on this. Rubel mentioned to Clare that Galatea would be sent on dangerous missions as a 'punishment' for lying. In the HK chinese translation, he also mentions that she can be considered lucky if she lives. It strikes me as odd that if the org didn't care whether she died or not in the dangerous mission(s), then why didn't they just add her into the Northern Campaign? She sure wasn't doing any reconnaissance mission, probably slaying ordinary Yoma in some region.

Though it could just be a translation error on their part.

Anyway, back to topic. =.=

Hehe, let's say I agree, somewhat, with the statement.

We do not know whether Claymores like Flora, Undine and Veronica ever did half-awaken. There was no mention whatsoever of their Awakenings, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen at one point or another.

As for rebellious Claymores, we were given very little information on that as well. We only know Miria, Helen, Deneve and Clare were rebellious Claymores.

There isn't enough information for us to conclusively infer that the rest were not rebellious, or had not half-awakened. The statement holds valid in this sense.

Also, I doubt anyone - other than the org, Galatea [later on], and maybe Miria knew of Alicia's existence. So again, that statement is true - because when the Northern Campaign was initiated, no Claymore knew Alicia could awaken.

Just my two cents. I think I've been sort of inactive lately. Been gaming a bit too much... the fun facts certainly perked me up. Didn't know there were so many meanings to the number 24... xD.

On another note, the [b]runic alphabet.

Has anyone realized Clarice's symbol is the same as the runic symbol called Algiz - and that it represents life? And that inverse, her symbol would represent death. Well, but this is off-topic... =.=

[SilentBuddhist]

Just my two cents. I think I've been sort of inactive lately. Been gaming a bit too much... the fun facts certainly perked me up. Didn't know there were so many meanings to the number 24... xD.
I understand how you feel, I'm a gamer as well. Gaming is a wonderful thing, eh? :lol:
On another note, the runic alphabet.

Has anyone realized Clarice's symbol is the same as the runic symbol called Algiz - and that it represents life? And that inverse, her symbol would represent death. Well, but this is off-topic... =.=
Hoorah, more fun facts :D

I never knew about that. I knew Yagi-san based the symbols of something, but the runic alphabet?

I need to see if I can edit the Claymore wiki article and add this on :lol:

[Manga-Dude]

i feel funny about claymore, like the old mastery place

[SilentBuddhist]

What are you talking about?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/EmoAngry1.gif

[Apple]

what does that mean???

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Sigh, I'm losing interesting things to say in this thread....do we have a new topic yet?

[VelvetRose]

claymore :D
i like isley.... for the simple fact that he's completely evil and willing to sacrifice anyone for his own gain, except pricilla it seems because she stands above all

[Hynavian]

There's something I've been wondering about on this. Rubel mentioned to Clare that Galatea would be sent on dangerous missions as a 'punishment' for lying. In the HK chinese translation, he also mentions that she can be considered lucky if she lives. It strikes me as odd that if the org didn't care whether she died or not in the dangerous mission(s), then why didn't they just add her into the Northern Campaign? She sure wasn't doing any reconnaissance mission, probably slaying ordinary Yoma in some region.

Though it could just be a translation error on their part.

This is an interesting point. However, let's assume that the translations are correct and let's try to come up with something. I place my faith in Viz Media and 10sigh as his english is great.

In my opinion, we should firstly, not trust what Rubel has said as what he mentioned might be just some threats to Clare+Jean who are just run-aways. He maybe wanted to scare Jean+Clare into complying with the organization's orders and to show them that the "organization is ultimately in power" as a warrior like Galatea had to serve her sentence for lying. Hence, we do not know whether Galatea was doing recon and slaying Yomas both at the same time or just slaying Yomas.

Secondly, the organization definitely cared about Galatea as she was not sent to the North War campaign though she told a blatant lie. It can be argued that she's a useful person at that point of time as she's powerful enough to cover all the other Claymore duties as it will be a bad decision to place a lousy Claymore who would die easily if she's to cover ALL the duties of the Claymores temporary till new replacement arrives. Further, there was a mention that the new eye was in training and that means Galatea at that time is indispensable at that point of time (until the next new eye is ready).

We do not know whether Claymores like Flora, Undine and Veronica ever did half-awaken. There was no mention whatsoever of their Awakenings, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen at one point or another.

As for rebellious Claymores, we were given very little information on that as well. We only know Miria, Helen, Deneve and Clare were rebellious Claymores.

There isn't enough information for us to conclusively infer that the rest were not rebellious, or had not half-awakened. The statement holds valid in this sense.

I came up with such a topic as I have always been wondering why characters like Flora, Cynthia and Veronica (who don't appear to be rebellious) were sent to the North campaign. I agree with you that not much information is mentioned about the other Claymores who take on minor roles but I would like to assume that they're not half-awakened as power-wise, they're nowhere near the gang. Half-awakened status should give them a boast in power somehow. Hence, I will like to take on one of SB's ideas where their "usefulness" is taken into account too.

I will argue that not only rebellious Claymores and half awakened claymores are sent to the North War campaign, claymores with little "usefulness" and "unlucky ones" are all packed off to the North. Both of you did mention that Galatea is useful and is hence, excused from being sent there. I would like to add in that the others are just unlucky as they're there to make up the numbers. Flora, Veronica and Cynthia for examples, appear to be very rule abiding and are "useful" as the organization will be able to control obedeint warriors and they definitely are able to handle those lousy yomas that are walking around. However, they got unlucky. In order to counter the huge group of awakened beings, a large party is needed. Hence, they're sent there to make up the numbers. The organization needed to stall time as much as possible for Alicia's completion and to do that, they will need good warriors to back up the campaign for as long as possible. Thus, they're there to make up numbers :o

Just my two cents. I think I've been sort of inactive lately. Been gaming a bit too much... the fun facts certainly perked me up. Didn't know there were so many meanings to the number 24... xD.

We're all busy with stuff and exams and I am grateful that you, TZ, and SB do still log in to help spice up this thread. Thank you guys.

On another note, the runic alphabet.

Has anyone realized Clarice's symbol is the same as the runic symbol called Algiz - and that it represents life? And that inverse, her symbol would represent death. Well, but this is off-topic... =.=

I have more information on symbols and such but I'm holding them as my "super cards" for my future topics :p

i feel funny about claymore, like the old mastery place
What are you talking about?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/EmoAngry1.gif

SB, i second your thoughts, I would have posted that emoticon minus the kind hearted lines of explanation. :p
PS: Help me to tank for 4 days more please, I'm down with 2 papers left.

Sigh, I'm losing interesting things to say in this thread....do we have a new topic yet?

I have posted the new topic on page 17, #169 or you can click here (http://forum.onemanga.com/showpost.php?p=166464&postcount=169) for easier reference.

[kyuukii]

Um, since you mentioned, who's the new eye of the Organization? And I was wondering what happened to Raki - did Isley/Priscilla keep from him all this time the history of Clare and Priscilla? And if they did, and Raki meets Clare somehow, what would happen?

[SilentBuddhist]

We're all busy with stuff and exams and I am grateful that you, TZ, and SB do still log in to help spice up this thread. Thank you guys.
No problem. I'm glad that I can be helpful. :)
SB, i second your thoughts, I would have posted that emoticon minus the kind hearted lines of explanation. :p
PS: Help me to tank for 4 days more please, I'm down with 2 papers left.
Four days will be plenty. I have the week off (again), or at least most of it, so four days is very do-able. Good luck with the papers Prezzy :thumbup:

BTW, I finally made my own intro thread...it's a little late but I did it anyways, for the sake of getting it out of the way. :lol:

[Tensa Zangetsu]

TZ here again.... Time is on my side for once >.> btw, cool facts on the #24 (lets make a movie out of taht ^-^)

ok soooo......after reading the past posts on this topic I have relized that everyone has already mention everything I would have said (from Flora not being rebellious to Galatea survived because she was still usefull) My stand isn't here but heres my attempt at a counter argument...pathetic but I don't see anyone else trying >.> or maybe I'm just too lazy to read...most likely...

thesis - The organization did in fact send the weakest or rebellious claymores to their snow-covered death...

argument 1 - The weak were sent to die
although you may say that they required a good amount of #'s to be sent to the north, the organization never intended to win in the first place. Knowing that 24 claymores wasn't enough, they most likly sent all the weak and rebellious ones of little usefullness to act as a wall to block the AB's. Although it would diminish their attacking power, this was an oppurtunity to both allow time for Alicia to strengthen and weaken the amount of AB's AND take care of all the less needed claymores which is what the organization probably intended to do from the beginning. If they truly wanted to defeat the AB, all the remaining single digits and low double digits would have been enough (this is before they knew of Rigardo). And even if Alicia and Beth had to train, it should have been enough without them. Seeing how close Galatea got to killing a monster like Dulf who can crush other AB's like flys, we can assume she could take down a regular AB by herself (same applies to the other single digits and were Raphaela sent....you know the rest...)

argument 2 - They were rebellious in some way
The claymores sent on this suicide mission were most likely both rebelious in some way or half-awakened, even some of the stronger ones like Flora and Undine. One reason that supports this is that Undine already shows her lack of control and rambunctious behavior during the meating and during the fight. It wouldn't be unlikely that she had problems in the past. Although nothing can be said for sure about flora, but you can see her lust for battle when she challenged clare to a one on one and continued on even though clare said she might kill her. Second reason that supports my stand is that despite the fact 3 single digits were sent to the North, none of them were in the top 5 and two of the 3 single digits were proven to have half-awakened in the past or caused some kind of disruption. There is a small chance that this is just a coincidence but an even smaller chance that this isn't a coincidence.

argument 3 - The org is cold enough to do it
Some may say that 'useful' ones were sent to the north as well and that it might have just been a twist of bad luck but from past examples, one can say that useful or not the org just sent all the unwanted weak or rebellious ones unless they were EXTREMELY useful like Galatea. The org has forcefully made claymores without their consent, forced them to awaken as a way to control the awakened state (after trial and error), and now they send half of their numbers to die. It isn't outrageous to say that the org sent these people knowing that only the weak ones wouldn't prove much of a wall so the more ostentatious ones were also sent no matter how strong they were. They wanted to create time for Alicia and Beth and thought the sacrifice was neccessary and thought that they were the unwanted ones anyways....

closing statement - The org decided to send the weak or the troublesome ones to the north in a suicide mission to buy time for the more 'useful' ones....
---------------------------
meh, I'm stuck with a counter-argument most people find easy rebuttals to argue back at me with.....

[Noelle]

Um, since you mentioned, who's the new eye of the Organization? And I was wondering what happened to Raki - did Isley/Priscilla keep from him all this time the history of Clare and Priscilla? And if they did, and Raki meets Clare somehow, what would happen?

The new "eye" of the organization is Lune/Rune/Renee. No idea which is the right one. Her name was mentioned during Clarice's report that 7 swords were missing from the 24 claymores in the North. It's just an assumption, since the way they spoke of her seemed as if she was the new "eye". Nobody knows what happened to Raki or what will happen if he meets Clare somehow. There's only speculation, and there's loads of them on that.

Hynavian, no probs. We'll do what we can! :D

Second reason that supports my stand is that despite the fact 3 single digits were sent to the North, none of them were in the top 5 and two of the 3 single digits were proven to have half-awakened in the past or caused some kind of disruption. There is a small chance that this is just a coincidence but an even smaller chance that this isn't a coincidence.

Lol, true. Seems to me that the org actually only truly cares about the top 5, out of all the single digits... =/

[Manga-Dude]

make the new claymore eq please

[SilentBuddhist]

make the new claymore eq please
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/EmoAngry1.gif

[Manga-Dude]

i really want the upload the newest chapter

[SilentBuddhist]

Read your thread. I'm not going to repeat myself.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/HynAvian/EmoAngry1.gif

[SilentBuddhist]

Okay, technically it's Thursday here, but I might as well ask anyway, since the week is almost over...

Our next Claymore of the week--who will it be?

I think I'll vote for Jean... :D

[Hynavian]

I saw the other thread and I have to say that newbie NAMED IT WRONGLY (should be Claymore XIV) and it pisses me off greatly. I went berserk when I saw the other thread and I have reported it.

Coming back to the character of the week, I'll go with Jean too.


I'm done with just another paper, my last paper will be in 3 days time and it's my worse topic - English :o Help!!!

I have just read through ZT's argument and it's a good point of view as he's making use of the correct facts to fit his arguments. I especially like his stand where the "weak or the troublesome ones" were sent to the north just "to buy time for the more 'useful' ones." :thumbup:

Please name the next thread correctly once this thread hit page 20 around 200 posts as I might end up doing janitor duty if it's name wrongly again :o Have pity on me please. :devil:

New topic coming up next. It'll be the last topic before the new chapter is up for discussion.

[ayaxyohji]

I think the official stand is "rebellious" and real reason "half-awakened". Anyway, yay Jean! In my opinion, she's the most elegant Claymore. :)

[SilentBuddhist]

I saw the other thread and I have to say that newbie NAMED IT WRONGLY (should be Claymore XIV) and it pisses me off greatly. I went berserk when I saw the other thread and I have reported it.

Coming back to the character of the week, I'll go with Jean too.


I'm done with just another paper, my last paper will be in 3 days time and it's my worse topic - English :o Help!!!

I have just read through ZT's argument and it's a good point of view as he's making use of the correct facts to fit his arguments. I especially like his stand where the "weak or the troublesome ones" were sent to the north just "to buy time for the more 'useful' ones." :thumbup:

Please name the next thread correctly once this thread hit page 20 around 200 posts as I might end up doing janitor duty if it's name wrongly again :o Have pity on me please. :devil:

New topic coming up next. It'll be the last topic before the new chapter is up for discussion.

I think the official stand is "rebellious" and real reason "half-awakened". Anyway, yay Jean! In my opinion, she's the most elegant Claymore. :)
I guess this makes 3 votes for Jean :thumbup:

Coming onto the thread name, no problem, I know my Roman Numerals, so the next thread will be XIV, NOT IX :lol:

[Hynavian]

I think the official stand is "rebellious" and real reason "half-awakened". Anyway, yay Jean! In my opinion, she's the most elegant Claymore. :)

Welcome to the forum buddy! ayaxyohji is one of my bestest best buddy around who supports Jean. :p

I guess this makes 3 votes for Jean :thumbup:

Coming onto the thread name, no problem, I know my Roman Numerals, so the next thread will be XIV, NOT IX :lol:

That is if Prezzo don't stage a revolt and recommend others. If pigpie turns up, he'll properly vote for Sophia (you know the reason why).

I think let's post a little more for today and make it hit page 20 or so and then make a new thread. :p I nominate you to make the next thread. I'll post the new topic there to make things look neater.

Coming back to topic, do you all think that Cynthia or Tabitha qualify as rebellious Claymores?

[SilentBuddhist]

I'll make a new thread.