Levels of zanpakuto's

[dawebby]

here http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/110/14/ we learn that there are different levels of swords... he gets a low level class sword from zan getsu...

what are the different levels and how are the higher level swords given out to high level shinigami's??? are they kept tabbed by soul society and noted when their spirit dies or moves on??

where does zangetsu come into this is he a registered one??? is ichigo's family special as in royalty or something and they have their own swords??



thoughts on this?

[grimmjow16]

As noted in the Diamond Dust Rebellion Movie, Shingami's can't use each other's Zanpaktou's, the Soul Slayer is born directly from the person's Soul and traits. And i don't think he meant that the Zanpaktou was low-class, i think he meant that the shingami who use them are low-class because they are unable to ask their Zanpaktou it's name(much like Ichigo in the begining, but he had enough rietsu to cover up not being able to use Shikai)

[Hito]

i thought we cant use movies as a referance, since there not part of the official story line, and any way the sword zangetsu gave to ichigo is a sword givin to shinigami who cant create there own zanpaktou

[mbw]

As noted in the Diamond Dust Rebellion Movie, Shingami's can't use each other's Zanpaktou's

That might not be true in Tousen's case, I guess

[grimmjow16]

Why does everyone keep saying Tousen is using that woman's Zanpaktou? Did i miss a chapter or something?

[Hollywoodliberal]

If memory serves, there was a frame that showed Tousens sword in the coffin of that woman

[grimmjow16]

Oh yea, that. It could have been hers, she did tell Tousen that she was going to become a Shinigami.

[Stark-san]

That might not be true in Tousen's case, I guess
shouldnt that mean that tousen should have his on sword to meaning maybe he is more powerful then he let on when fighting Kenny, if he's sword is stronger.

[grimmjow16]

shouldnt that mean that tousen should have his on sword to meaning maybe he is more powerful then he let on when fighting Kenny, if he's sword is stronger.

If the Zanpaktou is born directly from the Soul that would explain why Tousen's Bankai casts his opponent into complete darkness. And as i stated in another thread, Tousen ALWAYS FIGHTS SERIOUSLY WHEN FIGHTING IN THE NAME OF "JUSTICE".

[Danny Joe 91]

Okay, I got a few good theories on this: 1. I believe someone said the Zanpakuto is born of a shinigami's own soul and abilities, so perhaps Tousen's zanpakuto only looks like the girl's because he had such strong feelings for her, cause I can't see a zanpakuto being like a Buso Renkin (Buso Renkin is by Nobuhiro Watsuki, creator of Rurouni Kenshin and Gun Blaze West) although they're actually similar, I smell rip off!!! Ok, also I've only read and watched the american version, but if memory serves, the sword Zangetsu gave to Ichigo when he fought Hichi was called an asauche, a no name sword carried by low rank shinigami of the 13 court guard, or something to that effect anyways.

[bts]

if a zanpactu is born from someone soul would a shinigami with mutiples personalities have multiples zanpactu?

[Shokuten]

if a zanpactu is born from someone soul would a shinigami with mutiples personalities have multiples zanpactu?Not really because that would mean that the person would have multiple souls.

[bts]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/13/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/14/

but this guy have 2 zanpactu if u look closely he draw 2 zanpactu before realising both

[Shokuten]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/13/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/14/

but this guy have 2 zanpactu if u look closely he draw 2 zanpactu before realising bothShunsui is a special case. We don't know how he gained 2 zanpakuto. Other than that, its a mystery.

[bts]

well that guy is a skirt chaser a bet he couldn't be satisfied with just one girl he had to have two

[:(Benewabi):]

LOL! but seriously if they do have multiple personalities they could have multiple souls!
remember how the parakeet and the boys souls were intertwined? We learn from that that hollows have the ability to put 1 soul into another body partialy eclipsing the other soul.
If thats the case, could soul reapers have the same power and could Shunsui ( who might therefore possess 2 souls) be working for aizen?

[Munnin]

Shunsui is a special case. We don't know how he gained 2 zanpakuto. Other than that, its a mystery.

Its noted at some point, i don't remember wear, that Shimgami who are ani-dexterous or have truely unique reisu often have dual zanpako.

[grimmjow16]

LOL! but seriously if they do have multiple personalities they could have multiple souls!
remember how the parakeet and the boys souls were intertwined? We learn from that that hollows have the ability to put 1 soul into another body partialy eclipsing the other soul.
If thats the case, could soul reapers have the same power and could Shunsui ( who might therefore possess 2 souls) be working for aizen?

Why would Shunsui, a guy who has been a Captain for centuries, suddenly become a traitor? He was part of the 13 Court Protection Squads before Aizen even entered the Academy, plus he has served under Yama-jii for way too long, if Aizen had approached him with and underhanded proposition, I strongl believe Shunsui would have stopped Aizen himself before it developed to far or reported it to Yamamoto and the Central 46.

[Mahou_Hao]

Shunsui is a special case. We don't know how he gained 2 zanpakuto. Other than that, its a mystery.

When he's fightin Stark I'm pretty sure he says its an ordinary short sword

[akumashogun]

My theory:

Those blank zanpaktus that Zangetsu mentioned are what's given to new shinigami in their training as an object to focus their spiritual energy into.

With time and practice, theier spirit eventually houses itself into the blade.

When they reach shikia, the blade is sorta absorbed into them and then they must draw out their shikia from their inner world like Ichigo did in his training with Urahara.

[Dantrag]

When he's fightin Stark I'm pretty sure he says its an ordinary short sword

It's not an ordinary wakizashi (The name of a japanese shortsword), when Shunsui used shikai, the initial release of a zanpakuto, both his katana and wakizashi transformed into fantasy blades that resemble Falchions or Scimitars.

As for Tousen, there is no reason why he couldn't be using the womans Zanpakuto, but the spirit of the zanpakuto is definatelly his. All material forms in Soul Society are made out of spirit particles aka Reishi, that includes people, food, buildings etc. The souls of People are made out of spirit power aka Reiatsu. When a person dies, the Reiatsu is gone and all that's left is the empty shell. So basically anyone could have picked up that woman's sword but only a high level shinigami could have communicated with the spirit of their own zanpakuto and asked it to reside in that sword.

Remember, there are dozens of different zanpakutos out there, each with unique abilities, even though some belong to certain types. Ichigo's is a permanent release, energy type sword. Rukia and Hitsugaya have Ice, snow and water - zanpakutos, Yamamoto's is Fire. Hinamori has a kidou - type zanpakuto

[dragonreborn]

so in theory you could ask your zanpaktou to reside i any weapon like a quarter staff or a nuchku that would be cool

[CyberMaroon]

Shunsui is a special case. We don't know how he gained 2 zanpakuto. Other than that, its a mystery.
Don't all Zanpakutos look different even before release?

[crisshinn]

Speaking of Zanpakuto, Hitsugaya is the only shinigami I've seen who's zanpakuto looks exactly the same even after a release... wait, I think it's always in its released form... Aggh my memory's quite clouded >.<

[Shuma22]

Shunsui and Ukitake don't have 2 Zanpaktous, jesus, it's on the next page, they're Zanpaktous that come in pairs. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/15/

[CyberMaroon]

Shunsui and Ukitake don't have 2 Zanpaktous, jesus, it's on the next page, they're Zanpaktous that come in pairs. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/15/

What confused them is likely that Shunsui's exists as a pair even before release, which Ukitake's doesn't (and even after release his pair of swords is connected by a wire).

[GravityZero]

Summing up EVERYTHING in 1 sweep:

Shigekuni: Fire Kido Zanpakuto
Soifon: Poisonous Combat Zanpakuto
Omaeda: Combat Zanpakuto
Gin: Combat Zanpakuto
Kira: Kido Zanpakuto
Retsu: Flesh Healing Zanpakuto
Hanataro: Healing Zanpakuto
Sosuke: Kido Zanpakuto
Hinamori: Fire Kido Zanpakuto
Byakuya: Projectile Zanpakuto
Renji: Combat Zanpakuto
Sajin: Combat Zanpakuto
Shunsui: Wind Kido Zanpakuto (not confirmed)
Kensei: Wind Kido Zanpakuto
Kaname: Sensory Kido Zanpakuto
Shuhei: Projectile Zanpakuto
Toshiro: Ice Kido Zanpakuto
Rangiku: Projectile Zanpakuto
Kenpachi: Combat Zanpakuto
Ikkaku: Combat Zanpakuto
Yumichika: Plant Kido Zanpakuto
Kisuke: Blood Kido Zanpakuto
Mayuri: Flesh Poisonous Zanpakuto
Jushiro: Water & Electric Kido Zanpakuto (not confirmed)
Kaien: Water Kido Zanpakuto
Rukia: Ice Kido Zanpakuto

Shunsui only has one zanpakuto. It exists as a pair of blades sealed, and both blades release simultaneously with the same command.

Shunsui and Shuhei have only one zanpakuto each. They exists as one blade sheathed, and split into twin connected blades released.

Kaname's zanpakuto originally belonged to his friend. I speculate that his friend's shikai is Benihiko. Tosen's own two releases are Suzumushi and Enma Korogi. It's likely that his zanpakuto possesses two different spirits because it requires two different release commands.

Yumichika also uses separate release commands, but does so in order to limit his power. Bloom: Fuji Kujaku creates a weak combat type zanpakuto. Split and Deviate: Ruri-iro Kujaku creates a powerful kido type zanpakuto.

[Zenieth]

You mean Ukitake and hisagi have connected blades. Shunsui's blades have two release commands he refers to one then does the same to the other

[GravityZero]

You mean Ukitake and hisagi have connected blades. Shunsui's blades have two release commands he refers to one then does the same to the other

It's all part of the same chain. He doesn't release one blade, then release the other. Both release at the same time.

[Zenieth]

Though you have to admit that he refers to two different things in that sentence, the other captains outside of ukitake do not do that when they release.

[GravityZero]

It's probably still one zanpakuto. I'll wait for a better explanation from Shunsui himself.

[Blackluffy]

Woow i would think if other Shinigami could wield eachothers Zanpakuto would be stupid because that would totally ruin the whole concept of reatsu because if im not mistakin the blades change depending on the wielders reatsu thats why Toshiro wields the ice Zanpakuto because his reatsu is cold which was killing his grandmother which is the reason he went to the academy in the 1st place.

[dragonreborn]

It's probably still one zanpakuto. I'll wait for a better explanation from Shunsui himself.

ya i figured it was just one zanpaktou soul, or twins because he is ampadexrtrious

[Zenieth]

Blackluffy the sword itself is more a medium than the true zanpakuto, Ichigo is a good example, if you remember his zanpakuto was originally rukia's til he took it when he became a soul reaper and he still uses that same zanpakuto, thought it is vastly different than her own. I believe that the sword itself just houses the zanpakuto spirit rather than is it in actuality. If it was then it would fade with the owner rather than turn t unreleased form as it is a part of their very soul.

[Blackluffy]

O yea i had completly forgot about that episode...but yea thats what i was tring to say but you sayed it better...Thanks for clearing that up for me

[urie12]

I am looking forward to the zanpaktu materializing. We will get to to see why it hard for some shinigami to communicate with their zanpaktu to achieve bankai.

[darkcain11]

every zapaktu is a useless katana until it merges with the users soul. Zangetsu was rukia's katana originally until ichigo reset it. His sould reforged it to him. Just as rukia did to her next zapaktu. Its all in the soul.

[ninjaboy101]

Woow i would think if other Shinigami could wield eachothers Zanpakuto would be stupid because that would totally ruin the whole concept of reatsu because if im not mistakin the blades change depending on the wielders reatsu thats why Toshiro wields the ice Zanpakuto because his reatsu is cold which was killing his grandmother which is the reason he went to the academy in the 1st place.

no i thought that the zanpactou is one its self the owner does not determine the physical manifestation or the power i thought zangetsu will still be zangetsu even if he is weilded by rukia or someone else and he would't change for someone else anyway.

[urie12]

no i thought that the zanpactou is one its self the owner does not determine the physical manifestation or the power i thought zangetsu will still be zangetsu even if he is weilded by rukia or someone else and he would't change for someone else anyway.

that a question that will remained unansweref until Kubo explains how Tosen can use and communicate with someone's else zanpaktu.

[ninjaboy101]

yea i just read that part that is eird was that person a family member or something? maybe u just need to have a strong enough bond for the zanpatou to tell u its name

[ronrealplaya]

every zapaktu is a useless katana until it merges with the users soul. Zangetsu was rukia's katana originally until ichigo reset it. His sould reforged it to him. Just as rukia did to her next zapaktu. Its all in the soul.

now that i think about... i wander what would be the bankai of ichigo if he uses the zanpakuto he had gain from rukia transfering her shinigami powers to ichigo... ichigo's former zanpakuto looks like harribel's zanpakuto... maybe it's a water type... but also seems kido type...

[ninjaboy101]

what i thought that was his zanpatou not hers

[Zabuza Momochi]

what i thought that was his zanpatou not hers

ya I thought that zangetsu was his , due to it also being his inner hollow if it was rukia's than it doesn't really make any sense

[darkcain11]

It is his zapakto it was rukia's until ichigo reset it to his sprirt energy. She must have got another zampackto and stabbed herself again. The sword is all in the spirit. he still has the zampacto he got from rukia it is zangetu but was sudimyi or whatever.

About his huge first stage he never got the training to keep his sword as a katana

[Zabuza Momochi]

It is his zapakto it was rukia's until ichigo reset it to his sprirt energy. She must have got another zampackto and stabbed herself again. The sword is all in the spirit. he still has the zampacto he got from rukia it is zangetu but was sudimyi or whatever.

About his huge first stage he never got the training to keep his sword as a katana

I dont think Rukia stabbed herself to get a new sword , dont cha think she could've just gone inside her mind and talked to her sword to get it back? I don't remember when exactly but I remember ichigo doing something similiar to that

[darkcain11]

I dont think Rukia stabbed herself to get a new sword , dont cha think she could've just gone inside her mind and talked to her sword to get it back? I don't remember when exactly but I remember ichigo doing something similiar to that

I think the sword needs to have physical contact thus the pact part. After that they contact you via that pact but their needs to be a connection to the soul.

[zipykido]

Ichigo gained shinigami powers when Rukia stabbed him but I don't think he would have been able to release that zanpakto's powers even if at this point in the story. He didn't reset the zanpakto, he merely forged his own when he regained his shinigami powers.

[ninjaboy101]

look i thought all she did was give him her power of becoming a soul reaper and nothing else and that is why she needed a gigai or whatever and when she got her powers back she could go back into her origanal form she never gave away her zanpaktou or anything.

[ragavan]

Let me try and explain for those who don't understand. Rukia gave her powers for Ichigo since she couldn't fight anymore and Ichigo wanted to save his sister. When Renji and Byakuya turned up in the real world to take Rukia back to soul society Ichigo fought them and Byakuya attacked his 'source of power' which made Ichigo lose his shinigami powers. He then went through training with Urahara Kisuke to get his own shinigami powers, with which he would get his own zanpakuto (this was also when he went through a hollowification process).

[FaDeD_sOuL]

wait didint ichigo fight urahara with his origanal sword before he learned shikai and that was after he got his powers back

[mike009]

wait didint ichigo fight urahara with his origanal sword before he learned shikai and that was after he got his powers back

Ichigo awakened his Shinigami then he came out of the hole and broke his mask with the handle of his broken sword, he then fought Uruhara with his broken sword and then he was able to hear Zangetsu's name and finally used his Shikai.

[FaDeD_sOuL]

Ichigo awakened his Shinigami then he came out of the hole and broke his mask with the handle of his broken sword, he then fought Uruhara with his broken sword and then he was able to hear Zangetsu's name and finally used his Shikai.

hmmm was his sword already broken i didint think it was anyways he still had a peice of his origanal sword and that leads me to believe that he didint get a diff sword its the same one but its just always in shikai

[Spartan117]

I think that diffrent type of Zampukos are better

Kido types seem to Be enherintly stronger

Melee are tho loses and less you have massive energy (Ichigo)

All dual types seem to be really Good

[ConquestAce]

Dual types are awesome :)

but no history or background 4 them

[Inusho]

I think that diffrent type of Zampukos are better

Kido types seem to Be enherintly stronger

Melee are tho loses and less you have massive energy (Ichigo)

All dual types seem to be really Good

Dual = Twice as strong as a single Zanpakuto... With few exceptions!

lol.

[Xeorr]

Actually, Getsuga Tenshou seems to be pretty kido-ish to me, dont you think? I'm mostly basing this off the fact that it shoots out crecent moons of energy, moreso the energy than the crecents XD.

[Armageddon Relevant]

Shunsui and Ukitake don't have 2 Zanpaktous, jesus, it's on the next page, they're Zanpaktous that come in pairs. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/156/15/

to be honest, its two different beings for two different swords.
if your watching the anime ( i watch on bleachget.com), it shows shunsui and ukitake's zanpaktou are actually two seperate beings, one for each sword in the pair.

[Shuma22]

And that post you quoted is older than the filler arc we're watching.

[~Rausaro~]

to be honest, its two different beings for two different swords.
if your watching the anime ( i watch on bleachget.com), it shows shunsui and ukitake's zanpaktou are actually two seperate beings, one for each sword in the pair.

Filler is not something you want to source. Granted, Kubo did design the newer filler characters...

[Inusho]

And that post you quoted is older than the filler arc we're watching.

lmao! :^_^:

[VenomFang]

i know this is prolly a noob question but are they givin a sword and then they found out its name or is there something else????

[enigma_1962]

i know this is prolly a noob question but are they givin a sword and then they found out its name or is there something else????



If i am not mistaken, they are handed a normal sword and their souls attach themselves to the sword then they have to learn the name.....................Make sense? I hope i am not saying it wrong.

[Skyguy]

Why does everyone keep saying Tousen is using that woman's Zanpaktou? Did i miss a chapter or something?

in a chapter of tousens past he takes his dead friends sword from her grave
and most people think he is useing that sword right now
he may have combined the dead girls sword with his own sword some how
but thats just my guess

[VegaKotes]

i know this is prolly a noob question but are they givin a sword and then they found out its name or is there something else????

Hell I've been wondering that myself. I'm not sure if it was ever clearly stated and if someone does have proof I would love to see it (not being sarcastic in the least, no I'm serious...why don't you believe meee?)

[VirusLord]

It's difficult to understand the nature of zanpakutou without understanding the nature of shinigamification, which, IIRC, has never really been delved into. I believe that shinigamification is directly related to possessing high spiritual energy, and that zanpakutou are similarly related to such spiritual power. Remember back when Ichigo lost his power? IIRC, he didn't have his sword in soul form until he regained his shinigami power, and then his sword suddenly appeared. This suggests to me that the sword isn't just given to a shinigami and then connected, but actually a part of them.

[ho0f]

Which leads me to a question. If zanpaktou are based off their owners, which they are, then they are represented in their zanpaktou's ability. It's like an image of their soul basically.

So my question is, does it depend on the users motives/intentions? Aizen is a big example. He seems to have been the way he is since however long. Was he evil the entire time and deceived people from the get go? So his zanpaktou manifested itself in his total hypnosis ability? Or is it just randomly selected to it's user.

Hitsugaya said he always knew there was "coldness" about him and he gains Hyourinmaru. I guess I ask because now I wonder if another person down the line can gain an ability like Aizen or if it is just a one in a million shot.

[tylergc]

When Yoruichi is introducing Ichigo to the concept of Bankai and what it means for the power of a Shinigami she states that it typically increases one's power by a factor somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 10 times.

Here is my question--what in the world does this mean? Does she mean that a Shinigami's Spirit Energy increases by that much (in addition to gaining new abilities that make them more deadly) or does she simply mean that they gain new abilities in the Bankai state that make them 5 to 10 times more deadly than they would be in a Shikai state? If the Spirit Energy of a Shingami does increase is this always active or only active in the bankai state (obviously, the abilities one gains with bankai would only be active in the bankai state). How does this jump in power (whether Spirit Energy, Abilities, or both) relate to the increase in power that one gains upon reaching Shikai?

As someone relatively new to Bleach I have been pondering this and would appreciate all of your opinions--or the consensus on what exactly she means if indeed there is a consensus.

Thanks!!!

[Jesterzzn]

Also kind of new, but I'll give it a shot.

It's supposed to fully release the swords power, which is ordinarily being contained by the shinigami.

In Ichigo's case it does the opposite. It contains all his massive power into a concentrated and more effective form.

[ddboy102]

a bankai is the second and final upgraded form of a Zanpakutō the power of Bankai it will increases a Shinigami's power by a factor five to ten 's and is manifestation of the spirit itself. The power that comes with Bankai tends to be similar to the Shikai's ability/theme but amplifies it to much greater levels of power. Some simply increase the original ability.

[tylergc]

a bankai is the second and final upgraded form of a Zanpakutō the power of Bankai it will increases a Shinigami's power by a factor five to ten 's and is manifestation of the spirit itself. The power that comes with Bankai tends to be similar to the Shikai's ability/theme but amplifies it to much greater levels of power. Some simply increase the original ability.

Right, but what does increasing a Shingami's power refer to...does it refer to their Spirit Energy or does it merely refer to their deadliness meaning that they experience no increase in Spirit Energy but that they gain new abilities that make them 5 to 10 more deadly...in other words what does power refer to...energy/strength or abilities/deadliness or both.

[Jesterzzn]

It also seems to me that there is a theme of the Shikai taking on the form of the swordsman, and the ban kai taking on the form of the sword.

For example: Ichigo's shikai is wild and untamed while his bankai is cool and collected and that's reflected in the appearance of both. His swords personification is a cool steady swordsman and that's reflected in the ban kai.

Soifon is even more apparent. Her shikai is a small and contained two hit death bomb. It fits her personality. But her ban kai is a giant death bazooka. It fits the swords personality.

Right, but what does increasing a Shingami's power refer to...does it refer to their Spirit Energy or does it merely refer to their deadliness meaning that they experience no increase in Spirit Energy but that they gain new abilities that make them 5 to 10 more deadly...in other words what does power refer to...energy/strength or abilities/deadliness or both.Could be both, it just depends on the sword.

Like with the examples I gave above, Ichigo's gives him better overall combat ability while Soifon's gives her some extra powerful tools to play with.

[ddboy102]

yea it depends but one thing should be for certain bankai should enhance spirit energy.

[Bezee]

Right, but what does increasing a Shingami's power refer to...does it refer to their Spirit Energy or does it merely refer to their deadliness meaning that they experience no increase in Spirit Energy but that they gain new abilities that make them 5 to 10 more deadly...in other words what does power refer to...energy/strength or abilities/deadliness or both.

Power can depend on the type of Zanpaktou the said Shinigami upgrading to Bankai is using, Like Power type Zapkatou users i.e Ikaku and Renji both gain Strength and Energy when they upgrade to Bankai and nothing else (Except Renjis Baboon Cannon) Kurosaki Ichigogot both Speed and Strength as Power when he upgraded to Bankai. what im saying in a nutshell is that the type of Upgrade a shinigami gets depends on the type of zanpaktou they use

[mikeyba]

I :lol:ed at some of the posts here, but I think we should stop talking about hookers and jails and dead people.

I'm quite interested in this discussion, too. There have been noteworthy discussions about how the bankai may not necessarily been an extension of the shikai's abilities. Take Soifon's bankai for example.

However I chose to defend it by saying that given an sufficiently strong enemy, that Bankai should be able to kill in one shot, as opposed to two shots from the Shikai. Barragan was an exception; he was just too strong.

As a side-note, shouldn't this discussion be in the "levels of Zanpakutou" (http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?t=34057) thread?

[ho0f]

This is levels of Zanpakutou thread.

Lol.

Komamura's bankai doesn't seem to attribute him any. It doesn't increase his speed or strength that we've seen.

I dunno who said it but I also believe it's based off the specific Zanptakutou.

[mikeyba]

This is levels of Zanpakutou thread.

Lol.

Komamura's bankai doesn't seem to attribute him any. It doesn't increase his speed or strength that we've seen.

I dunno who said it but I also believe it's based off the specific Zanptakutou.

It was merged from another thread, the "what exactly does bankai do" thread.

Well, Komamura's bankai might not have any real strength-enhancing effect on him, but its own capabilities are maximized.

Now I don't understand what Bankai really is. Perhaps it all depends on the wielder, and there is no standard.

[Al Mighty]

Isn't it about time we saw Yama's bankai. That old fart has been standing there doing nothing this whole time lol.

[themitchguy]

here http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/110/14/ we learn that there are different levels of swords... he gets a low level class sword from zan getsu...

what are the different levels and how are the higher level swords given out to high level shinigami's??? are they kept tabbed by soul society and noted when their spirit dies or moves on??

where does zangetsu come into this is he a registered one??? is ichigo's family special as in royalty or something and they have their own swords??



thoughts on this?
Lol Not sure it's giving out strong swords to the stronger shinigami, as much as the case is that the stronger swords enable the shinigami to survive and grow stronger over time.
Those with weak sword abilities would get killed off pretty quickly, no? Lol I don't think most Shinigami live long enough to gain that much power.

[Bezee]

It was merged from another thread, the "what exactly does bankai do" thread.

Well, Komamura's bankai might not have any real strength-enhancing effect on him, but its own capabilities are maximized.

Now I don't understand what Bankai really is. Perhaps it all depends on the wielder, and there is no standard.

It only depends on the wielder in a way. its a general Hunch that the stronger a shinigami is, the Stronger the Zanpakutou, which happens to be true in a sense coz The Zanpakutou evolves with both its and the Power of the Shinigami. Try imagining um....4th Squads Hanatarou with Aizens Kyoka Suigetsu or Yama with Kiras Wabisuke

[tylergc]

It only depends on the wielder in a way. its a general Hunch that the stronger a shinigami is, the Stronger the Zanpakutou, which happens to be true in a sense coz The Zanpakutou evolves with both its and the Power of the Shinigami. Try imagining um....4th Squads Hanatarou with Aizens Kyoka Suigetsu or Yama with Kiras Wabisuke

These could never happen because as the consensus seems to be--the zanpakuto is based off the weilder's soul (which is key, in my opinion, to how everyone who has lost their zanpakuto in the filler arc will be able to regain it...the fact that the sword's soul is derived from and based on the weilders soul...so once the rebellion is over the owner's soul simply gives new birth to the dead zanpakuto's soul)...but that is off topic. Hanatarou with Kyoka Suigetsu is laughable but Yama with Wabisuke would still be quite strong given Yama speeds (of course, anyway, Yama's Wabisuke would be more powerful than Kira's due to Yama's greater Spirit Power). I think Wabisuke is an amazing sword and I hope that Kira learns Bankai and is the one to take Gin down. Even with Gin likely haveing a hollow mask and a ressurecion--I still think a Wabisuke Bankai could take him down (literally and pun intended).

[Epsil]

it's my understanding that the swords Ichigo fights Zangetsu with (forgive me for not knowing the name) are the swords given to lower level Shinigami until they can materialise their own, i'm assuming they're just regular swords forged out of reiatsu somehow.

As for the factor of 5-10 regardling bankai. I think it's referring to the effectiveness of the particular shinigami. For example Ichigo leaks reiatsu everywhere with his style of fighting, his bankai compresses it and makes him for efficient, or so it seems. Effectiveness can be an increase in reiatsu or simply just new abilities but i'd assume that these powers don't just 'come out of nowhere' but are achieved through greater understanding between shinigami and zanpakutou.

As for Tousen I didn't know he had someone elses sword so I have no idea about that topic. XD.

[RasenfieldTech]

my theory is that the sword is just a sword and that the zanpakuto is the shinigami's ability. they can channel their abilities through any of the low class swords like the one zangetsu through at ichigo but the high class swords are made specifically for them or their spiritual power affects any sword that they pick up turning it into their sword alot of holes in my theory but i like it. maybe once a shinigami picks a sword they bond to it changing its shape like the hilt and stuff and from then on they can't use another sword so when tousen's friend died her bond with it broke so he took it and forged a bond with it or w/e again lotsa holes.

[Jesterzzn]

my theory is that the sword is just a sword and that the zanpakuto is the shinigami's ability.I'm pretty sure that's stated point blank when Ichigo is first training with Kisuke.

However, the sword seems to become a semi-sentient extention of the swordsman.

I view it as a kind of subconscious state turned into a physical form. It kinda follows my belief that the shikai reflects the shinigami's personality while the bankai reflects the swords personality. So the shikai is the way the shinigami wants to be viewed, and the bankai is their subconscious personality that they must face and overcome in order to control.