ULTIMO

[natsu77]

Discuss the manga ULTIMO here.

[dbrassel]

What happened with the manga?? :confused:

[methaniel]

Nothing. It's intended as a one-shot first, but depending on some things I don't know, Stan Lee and Takei would have continue it...So maybe one day you'll have another chapter, maybe not (more not for now, but we never know)

[Locke]

Well it was amazingly drawn & the rest of the manga sucked hard. I doubt there will be another chapter.

[Kurapika]

Well it was amazingly drawn & the rest of the manga sucked hard. I doubt there will be another chapter.

Really? I really liked it, the characters seemed cool and the powers were very interesting i think it could(could be) very big if it continues

[methaniel]

Indeed, we can't make critism on the art, Hiroyuki Takei is really good.
After that, I was one of those who were deceived by the casting making it, I expected more from Stan Lee than a normal war between Good and Evil...manicheism isn't my cup of tea

[Locke]

And the dialogue & writing in general was just terrible. And the story showed no effort whatsoever. And Pika, I give up, you disagree with everything I say. I may just start saying my favourite character ever is Kurapika so then you can hate yourself.

[Kurapika]

And the dialogue & writing in general was just terrible. And the story showed no effort whatsoever. And Pika, I give up, you disagree with everything I say. I may just start saying my favourite character ever is Kurapika so then you can hate yourself.

Well i liked the way it went, its just a normal good vs evil sure, but thats not all that bad, plus it was only a pilot chapter, not much to say about it, it could/coulda been better as it went. some series start slow, and yeah we disagree a lot but thats the fun part of forums, you can see other peoples opinions and discuss things ;D

[Locke]

No. You just see my opinion & disagree with it. I could agree with you but that was before you disagreed with me in every thread.

And for a pilot chapter I suppose it was pretty good because it did basically everything wrong & gave us clear views on what could be improved & also told us that the only place the manga could go, is up.

[Kurapika]

No. You just see my opinion & disagree with it. I could agree with you but that was before you disagreed with me in every thread.

And for a pilot chapter I suppose it was pretty good because it did basically everything wrong & gave us clear views on what could be improved & also told us that the only place the manga could go, is up.

...your too sensitive I think...its not like i would just put your opinions down, i at least say why i disagree with them

And I dont see what was so wrong with it, having robots come from the past and both being made by the same guy just to be Pure Evil and Pure Good, imo, is very cool, plus with how it set up there should be a cool continuation, Ultimo seemed to be damaged when he fell back to earth so he might have amnesia(which sometimes sucks as a plot device but it can also be cool) and with Vice's arm being taken off and put in that guys hands it could lead to more then one bad guy.

[Locke]

Yeah but Batman is cool, is the 1960's film cool? In it's own way, yeah. But generally? No.

The dialogue, the story, the lack of any effort took what could potentially be cool & pissed all over it.

[Kurapika]

Yeah but Batman is cool, is the 1960's film cool? In it's own way, yeah. But generally? No.

The dialogue, the story, the lack of any effort took what could potentially be cool & pissed all over it.

But yet again, it was only a pilot, theres not much you can but in one chapter, and with the amount of pages it had, it got me into it and clearly showed the characters personalities and how they were created and how their powers are, if it goes on it could really expand on the story and surrounding and be very good, imo it has potential and it being a joint project between two people from two diffrent places is cool and both cultures and play a part in it.

[Raiden]

I must say I also liked the first (and probably last chapter) of Ultimo. Especially the ending, left over more than one plot possibilities. The fight was cool, it has a very good art and well the characters so far are simple but not bad.

[Tensa Zangetsu]

Aw, there's still only one chapter of this?

Anyways, it's starting to be released in the US. The first chapter was in the latest US shonen jump.

[methaniel]

Oh wel, probably people heard of it already, but why not telling this in this thread.

Ulitmo is gonna continue finally. But, as a surprise, it won't be release in the Shonen Jump or any japanese magasine but in the American version of the magasine (I'm not American but I believe there is an WSJ American or something like this)
Well, I don't have any link in internet since I didn't bother to search, but it was written in my magasine that I buy every month, and it's pretty reliable most of time...
After that, will it be scanned, since it's originally in english, so it's a rip-off?

[glowstick]

The writing was too americanized....I read manga to get away from "comic books"!

[Locke]

Still not a new chapter?

[Hito]

wish the main character had a better name ULTIMO!defintely sounds like something stan lee would make up

[pandabear104]

well the new chapter finally came out. just recently found out about this manga.
i like how it's progressing. Neither one of the characters are push-over and the story has the ability of diverge on different paths, leaving for a more intriguing story-line.
the art-work is definitely a plus.

[Amon]

OMG, this was finally updated...! o_o
Weeeeeee~ x3

I LOVE this manga, it has an interesting idea with the whole Good Vs Evil thing... 83
I wonder if it's a big hit in Japan though... =/

[yusuke19]

New Chapter Came out Ultimo and Vice are awesome.

[Locke]

Man I sorta like accepted the pilot being a little shitty cuz it was the pilot, but nothing improved here. I admit the story is actually existent now and kinda cool, but the dialogue was still terrible.

[Raiden]

I was really surprised when I saw a new chapter of Ultimo^^ However I really liked it and Vice and Ultimo are really scary awesome. So I would have liekd it more when the first chapter had at least a bit to do with the pilot.
Whatever I liek it so far. (no wonder Spiderman is one of the best comics and shaman king one of the best mangas :D)

[KingDavid]

Yea, I just read it now.

The art style is pretty good, not over doing it. And the plot sound like it going to fit with series. So, I'm please!

[methaniel]

Completly forgot that this serie was meant to be serialised >.<
Anyway this new chapter wasn't bad...I didn't expected a flashback like that, but at least, it seems there will be some bits of plot with reincarnations of people and stuff like that...not bad, but it's only a beginning so I can't really tell

[DestinyGirl]

Shouldn't there have been another one out by now?

[Bankai4tailluffy]

Next months Shonen Jump is gonna have ULTIMO. Doesn't that count? That'll mean that every month there will be ULTIMO:thumbup:

[Firestarter]

I'm definitely liking this so far. I LOVE Stan Lee's comics, especially Spider-Man and X-Men and Shaman King is really good too.

Ultimo and Vice are really cool characters and I like how the guy who created them looks like Stan Lee. Good stuff, I'm looking forward for more!

[Dark_Zero]

hey guys, an what happened to ULTIMO? no more chapters?

[Shamanking]

the next issue they show vice's new master

[yusuke19]

Master K was a wuss but then again who isn't That guy almost kissed Ultimo.

[gilstocker]

Vice's New master? What site did you saw it?

[Ju-da-su]

Somewhere in there (http://mangahelpers.com/m/ultimo/raws/).

SaitheShaman (the translator for this) is pretty busy, so he hadn't translated it yet. Please be patient and wait until he has time to do us this favor. ^_^"

[gilstocker]

Alright I will thank you for the update.

[gilstocker]

Ya-Ha the Latest ultimo chapter one hell of encounter it is.

[Jstar300]

I read the oneshot and First chapter. Seems like they've set this up for some pretty big things to happen down the line. Can't wait.

[gilstocker]

well if it is stanley's creation it will surely won't end just like that.

[methaniel]

Did this chapter ended with Vice and Ultimo dying again? That's...surprising for them to went down so fast...

[pkingdom]

I think it's a little disturbing that the girl he likes is so small compared to him....if it were just a matter of being a "little person" it wouldn't be so bad, but a lot of characters seem to be small...

[bbelt23]

ultimo's master is a bit cliche but considering his definition of good that's to be expected. i'm definitely looking forward to seeing vice's master. the idea of the manga is interesting hopefully it lives up to all to it.

[Jstar300]

I think it's a little disturbing that the girl he likes is so small compared to him....if it were just a matter of being a "little person" it wouldn't be so bad, but a lot of characters seem to be small...

Well he's just big.

[pkingdom]

She's like three feet tall....and when you compare him to the space-filling people around him, he's normal size....

[Archangelxiii]

chapter 3 of ultimo is out in shonen jump(america) why is it not out yet on onemanga? i alrealy read it but i was just wondering

[Jstar300]

What other space filling people?

[pkingdom]

Just the random people with no names or anything in the panels, like on the bus. Or the crowd.

[Jstar300]

But he never stands side by side to those people. (Sorry for buggin' ya with this.)

[jork15]

Just saw chapter 3 and IMO........best chapter so far!!! Actually this was the only chapter i had like it.

Finally it's starting to make sense,i hope is been released weekly.

[Graeystone]

Never knew Stan 'The Man' Lee has such a wicked sense of humor.

[gilstocker]

hey nice chapter but how come there is another one. What kind of nature taht this new robot has?

[Tekkaman Saber]

Is it just me or does Stan Lee like to make a cameo of himself in alot of his series' >_>

[Jstar300]

Is it just me or does Stan Lee like to make a cameo of himself in alot of his series' >_>

Thats what makes him so cool.

[SoulSurvivor]

Is it just me or does Stan Lee like to make a cameo of himself in alot of his series' >_>

He does that in every series. He even showed up in the Fantastic 4 movie.

Anyway, Yamato seems to have the least amount of luck out of anyone in the series. It's bad timing on his part.

[Quesoman]

Is it just me or does Stan Lee like to make a cameo of himself in alot of his series' >_>
Yes he does! xD

[Jstar300]

Wow, I just read Number three and the ending is so unlucky for him.

[BaileyDelRosa]

I thought the ending was epic XD. I nearly pee'd myself laughing XD

[methaniel]

Yeah, this kind of ending is quite usual, but still really funny (the moment he removed his clothes, I knew something bad would happen anyway)

And so, they can repair their dolls by themself, good~
I want to see more of this serie now ^^

[Bankai4tailluffy]

I think we should change the name To Karakuridoji Ultimo, now that that's the official name.

[Bankai4tailluffy]

He does that in every series. He even showed up in the Fantastic 4 movie.

Anyway, Yamato seems to have the least amount of luck out of anyone in the series. It's bad timing on his part.

Hes appeared in Both Fantastic 4, the three Spider Man Movies, Hulk (2003), X-Men (Both the first and The Last Stand), Iron Man, Iron Man 2 (TBR but is confirmed), and in an announced Venom spin-off

[gilstocker]

Well looks like stan lee is going all around heh? He really rocks.

[ViralVirus84]

Hes appeared in Both Fantastic 4, the three Spider Man Movies, Hulk (2003), X-Men (Both the first and The Last Stand), Iron Man, Iron Man 2 (TBR but is confirmed), and in an announced Venom spin-off

He also appeared in that recent Hulk movie too.


Anyways new chapters it out! I was surprised that there are more Douji's than Ultimo and Vice.

[Zahariel]

Okay, so here we go:

To be honest, so far I am totally not impressed by this series. First of all, and this is what annoys me the most, ULTIMO looks like a girl. I am so sick and freaking tired of series with androgynous heroes! Heck, Vice is obvious a boy and Uru is obvious not. ULTIMO is way too slender, has soft, feminine features, heck she even has eye-lashes! It's absolutely ridiculous.

Secondly, there has been practically no explanation whatsoever. Usually, a good story starts out by building up a foundation, but this story is all Top-Down. They haven't explained how anything works or is connected, and it is totally frustrating. The art is great, but the story pacing is totally off. Battles are just flung into the story to mix things up a bit. Stan Lee's cameo's don't do anything for me whatsoever, and I have been a Marvel fan (Spiderman FTW!!!) for nearly 20 years!

That pretty much wraps it up, but seriously, this series needs work. What are the editors thinking!!! Also, Shaman King totally sank thanks to this series coming out, and it had been SO GOOD!

[Jstar300]

Just give it time is all I have to say. I'm just not liking how it feels like this manga is trying to get me to like shotas.

[Ultimo]

I really like Ultimo. it's pretty fun and has some good action and drawings.

but what I want to know the most is... How the Heck did that scientist or whateverf created ultimo and vice when there was basically no technology at all during that time period?! seriously. this one really bugs me!!

[True Dragon Master]

It started out good but then it went downhill.

[KingDavid]

I really like Ultimo. it's pretty fun and has some good action and drawings.

but what I want to know the most is... How the Heck did that scientist or whateverf created ultimo and vice when there was basically no technology at all during that time period?! seriously. this one really bugs me!!

Well, the series is still new. It will explain soon. I mean, come ppl. After 3 (or 4) chapters and ppl are already making judgements? What happen to the 5 or 10 chapters rule?

This manga series is trying to find its place, give it some time.

[mastertek]

to be completely honest (and obvious), this series is getting stupider and stupider in ALL ways, and the same to its character. It's hopeless.

[gilstocker]

to be completely honest (and obvious), this series is getting stupider and stupider in ALL ways, and the same to its character. It's hopeless.

Still why did you read it? Will you just give it some time? come on it's just getting warmed up

[KingDavid]

Man, talking about being picky. I hope ppl are not hating on this series because a american name is in it.
So 5 chapters didn't grab you, oh well. That doesn't mean its doom. Heck, I did the same way with Naruto. But I gave it a chance...Kind of...Sort of.

Man, hate after hate. There's no pleasing ppl now in days. They all want perfection.

[Truth101]

Hmm that's odd.. Just saw that the author is the creator of Spider Man and X-Men.. I wonder what made him want to write a manga.. I'm really curious if anyone knows anything send me a pm =)

[jork15]

Is really is disturbing to know that Ultimo is a 'he' 0_O
This series would make it for me if they say that Ultimo is really a GIRL!!
Seriously,is disturbing!!

[KingDavid]

Is really is disturbing to know that Ultimo is a 'he' 0_O
This series would make it for me if they say that Ultimo is really a GIRL!!
Seriously,is disturbing!!

That, I agree.

Maybe its for those Fan girls. Having a cute & girly looking guy. Maybe, many manga series have those characters in it.

But, I'll be happy if he was a she instead.

[pkingdom]

Yeah, he looks like a girl. So what. It's a manga.

Seems ok to me. People shouldn't hate on this, it's freaking chapter 5. 'Bout time there was an american making manga. That doesn't suck, or is fan made.

[Ultimo]

I'm glad Ultimo is a boy because it makes the parts where he looks evil all the more EPIC!! XP

Also Stop hating it! Wait till chapter 10, 15, or 20. Then tell me how much you hate it and give me a good reason why. Until then stop typing or nagging of how much you hate it.

- pkingdom

THANK YOU! I agree with the american Manga thing. Though I was Really surprised when I found out Stan Lee Creating ULTIMO.

[KingDavid]

Yeah, he looks like a girl. So what. It's a manga.

Seems ok to me. People shouldn't hate on this, it's freaking chapter 5. 'Bout time there was an american making manga. That doesn't suck, or is fan made.

Many (Not all) Manga fans think an american can't write a decent story. To be honest, they can. Heck, Felipe Smith wasn't born in Japan and he's making a great manga in Japan right now.

And plus, I find it funny how some of the haters are americans too and some of them are trying to be a manga-ka too. ;)

[Skyguy]

i just find it funny that stan lee is the author of the manga
bahahahaaha

[KingDavid]

i just find it funny that stan lee is the author of the manga
bahahahaaha

Why not? :confused:

[Cloudninja92]

Many (Not all) Manga fans think an american can't write a decent story. To be honest, they can. Heck, Felipe Smith wasn't born in Japan and he's making a great manga in Japan right now.

And plus, I find it funny how some of the haters are americans too and some of them are trying to be a manga-ka too. ;)

There are many great writers in american comics for instance the one thats really big right now is Geoff Johns the current writer on Green lantern and blackest night.

And this story is really intresting the fact theyre throwing in more Doujis is really cool regula is really cool Jealous not so cool.

[Tekkaman Saber]

It's not just the americans who can write a decent story.
Alan Moore (the father of Swamp thing, watchmen, captain britain, V for vendetta and the league of extraordinary gentlemen) is a good example..... and to a lesser extent Tod mcfarlen (the father of the black spiderman symbiote and spawn.)
It's just to bad that both marvel and dc have figurativly shafted him concernign his cotnract is concerned.

[Cloudninja92]

Does ultimo come out bi weekly or monthly like FMA. All I know is that im up to chapter 3 or 4 in monthly shounen jump. And theres more discusssing how much this series sucks or doesnt suck than discussing the plot and how Historical this series can be. Im really enjoying it so far.

And i Like to think of Ultimo as a Girl

[KingDavid]

It's not just the americans who can write a decent story.
Alan Moore (the father of Swamp thing, watchmen, captain britain, V for vendetta and the league of extraordinary gentlemen) is a good example..... and to a lesser extent Tod mcfarlen (the father of the black spiderman symbiote and spawn.)
It's just to bad that both marvel and dc have figurativly shafted him concernign his cotnract is concerned.

There are many great writers in american comics for instance the one thats really big right now is Geoff Johns the current writer on Green lantern and blackest night.

And this story is really intresting the fact theyre throwing in more Doujis is really cool regula is really cool Jealous not so cool.

I'm saying they can...I didn't say they can't. And, Alan Moore may be a good writer, but I can't handle his art style.

Does ultimo come out bi weekly or monthly like FMA. All I know is that im up to chapter 3 or 4 in monthly shounen jump. And theres more discusssing how much this series sucks or doesnt suck than discussing the plot and how Historical this series can be. Im really enjoying it so far.

And i Like to think of Ultimo as a Girl


Is a monthly series.

And, let ppl hate. Everyone has a right. But, yeah I'm likeing the series as well. I mean, I read worst manga's before, this manga is not at that level. Like I said, its still new. The manga is trying to find its place.

[Cloudninja92]

I know and Iwas backing your examples.


But seriously no one feels like sharing thoughts on the plot and not on the creators.

[KingDavid]

I know and Iwas backing your examples.


But seriously no one feels like sharing thoughts on the plot and not on the creators.

Oh, my bad.

Well, I hope so. I really want some ppl in the U.S living their dreams of becoming a Manga-ka without being bash by Manga fans.

Its like a person wants to to Dub's for anime and that person get bash of anime fans because that person is dubbing anime.

[Cloudninja92]

Ok more plot discussion

Like how do you guys feel anout more doujis

[pkingdom]

Needs more. Plot wouldn't be very long if it only had the two....
How many of chapters are out now? Have they caught up?

My favorite American comic artist is Jhonen Vasquez. Go Nny!

[Cloudninja92]

Its up to 6 if you count 0

[pkingdom]

I meant out period, not here. But maybe that's what you meant.....like, chapters left untranslated.

[Jstar300]

You'd expect Japan and America to get the chapters at the same time.

I think more Doujis would be cool, but I want to know how they work. They're more like mystical beings rather than robots.

[pkingdom]

He should have made a pact with Jealous in addition to Ultimo. Having two would have been cool, particularly if they didn't get along.

[Jstar300]

Yes! I was also thinking that. I'm hoping there is still an opportunity to do so. Seeing as Jealousy is not exactly evil, but something that leeds to evil acts.

[roronoa3000]

He should have made a pact with Jealous in addition to Ultimo. Having two would have been cool, particularly if they didn't get along.

Thats what I thought too, but a pure evil and pure good being could never end well.

And isn't there 100 robots? I think that was in like chapter 3 or 4.

[Jstar300]

I think that only Ultimo and his counterpart who's name I currently can't remember are the only pure good and evil ones. I'm probably worng.

[Cloudninja92]

I think theyre traits that usually are found in evil

[gilstocker]

Well I think there is always an old saying on every person character "Good will never exist without Evil within them."

[Bankai4tailluffy]

Again, I think we should change the manga's name to Karakuridoji Ultimo, now that it's been officially confirmed.

[KingDavid]

Again, I think we should change the manga's name to Karakuridoji Ultimo, now that it's been officially confirmed.

It sounds to long and way to japanese. :o

Keep it short and sweet.

[BaileyDelRosa]

I agree, it should be changed to Karakuridouji Ultimo :3. Considering, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, Stan Lee already has a title out called Ultimo or something like that. ^^

It makes it less confusing =D.

Anyway, my thoughts on the other douji are that they are merely aspects that lean more towards either good or evil, like Regula the Moral and Jealous the Envious. How they turn out, I believe, depends on what their masters teach them. Like in the last chapter when Jealous asked Yamato if he wanted to be his master to teach him why what he did was wrong. It's possible, depending on the master, that so called "evil" douji have the potential of becoming good while the "good" douji have the potential of becoming evil. Ultimo and Vice being the only acceptations of course.

Just a thought though.

[Cloudninja92]

I agree, it should be changed to Karakuridouji Ultimo :3. Considering, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, Stan Lee already has a title out called Ultimo or something like that. ^^

It makes it less confusing =D.

Anyway, my thoughts on the other douji are that they are merely aspects that lean more towards either good or evil, like Regula the Moral and Jealous the Envious. How they turn out, I believe, depends on what their masters teach them. Like in the last chapter when Jealous asked Yamato if he wanted to be his master to teach him why what he did was wrong. It's possible, depending on the master, that so called "evil" douji have the potential of becoming good while the "good" douji have the potential of becoming evil. Ultimo and Vice being the only acceptations of course.

Just a thought though.

Yes your right there is a Marvel character named ultimo. So when you type ultimo the marvel character pops up so if you put the full name there it is.


I think the douji are meant to represent the characteristics found in good and evil

[Black Star]

I think you might be right Cloudninja92, where as Ultimo and Vice represent the ultimate (pure) good and evil respectively, I believe the other douji are more specific aspects that lie in between the two and so "fill in the gaps" like it is stated in the manga. Takei has consistently stated that he doesn't want people to view good and evil simply as black and white, so it seems only fitting that these other douji display the shades of grey.

From the two other douji we have seen so far, Regula and Jealous, I also get the feeling that they represent a further clash between western and eastern cultures. The main good douji seem likely to based off six virtues in Buddhism, while the main evil douji could be centered around the concepts of the seven deadly sins.

[pkingdom]

The other good Douji seem to be...how can I put this....too good? Think X-Laws from Shaman King. Judging by Yamato's (how generic of a main character name is that, anyway?!) reaction to them, he's not going to get along with them well. He's already breached the "no such thing as absolute good" area, plus Ultimo nearly killed Jealous on his own.

Another thing, and this goes for many other manga as well: KILL THE BAD GUYS WHEN YOU HAVE THE CHANCE!!!!! WHY DO THEY LET THEM GO?! IT JUST MAKES THINGS WORSE!!!!!!!!

[Jstar300]

Ultimo is another one of Stan's Characters, but not a series.

[Cloudninja92]

From the two other douji we have seen so far, Regula and Jealous, I also get the feeling that they represent a further clash between western and eastern cultures. The main good douji seem likely to based off six virtues in Buddhism, while the main evil douji could be centered around the concepts of the seven deadly sins.
And I think your right from the page of chapter 6. And more western culture a 7/11 haha
http://www.onemanga.com/ULTIMO/6/02/

The If you notice in the flashbacks in the crowd of characters youcan see shaman king characters like Tokagero.

[gilstocker]

Well looks like Jealous will became a friend in up coming chapters.

[pkingdom]

And I think your right from the page of chapter 6. And more western culture a 7/11 haha
http://www.onemanga.com/ULTIMO/6/02/

The If you notice in the flashbacks in the crowd of characters youcan see shaman king characters like Tokagero.

I don't notice that....

[Cloudninja92]

it wasnt in this chapter I meant in ealier chapters that link was for the 6 virtues.

[Black Star]

Well looks like Jealous will became a friend in up coming chapters.

I wouldn't be quite so sure about that at the moment, it's possible that Lune harbours some deep seated resentment towards Yamato and it was this envy that drew Jealous towards him in the first place. Jealous' previous master was openly envious of everything, meaning that it was a superficial feeling and so Jealous could find this far more interesting because it's a feeling on a completely different level. Anyway, thats my purely speculative perspective on it.

[Keiichi]

I think Jealous is pertaining to his role as a douji of "Evil" when he asks Yamato to be his master. He was "jealous" of Yamato's superiority as a person of principle, and therefore wanted Yamato to be his master.

I hope Vice is a masochist, because being "pure evil" means that he doesn't want to be treated kindly or with mercy.

Such a kindness could perhaps switch Jealous to the side of good though, depending on his master I think. I foresee that Yamato will one day bring all the evil douji under his wing and make them good muhahahahaha...

[vipera_naja]

Oy, the Ultimo chapters here are completely missing this page (http://mangahelpers.com/s/jac/readonline/47891/24), which could be confusing people.

[Cloudninja92]

Oy, the Ultimo chapters here are completely missing this page (http://mangahelpers.com/s/jac/readonline/47891/24), which could be confusing people.

Its a pretty small part its not very important.

[Keiichi]

Its a pretty small part its not very important.

That's a pretty important page...

[Cloudninja92]

That's a pretty important page...

okay sir,how.

[Keiichi]

Because it clarifies Jealous's intention. Without that page it would be open to speculation and even become an integral part of the plot of allowing evil karakuri douji to become good with a good master. However, since Jealous said "If you hold me back, I will kill you" that means he has no intention of conforming to the ways of good.

[pkingdom]

i still wouldn't rule "good becoming bad and vice versa" as impossible.

What I am wondering about is that there might be douji who are more "middle road" type, not totally good and not totally evil.

[Cloudninja92]

There probably are ones that have evil tendancies and ones that have good in them. But I think I can go without that page I did I I got the whole concept but I see how you explained the significance and that the page more emphasives that jeolous doesn't want to leave the dark side

[pkingdom]

Jealous is a guy.....right?

[Cloudninja92]

I like to think of jealous as a chick along with ultimo they're to girlish looking

[Bankai4tailluffy]

CHANGE THE NAME TO KARAKURIDOJI ULTIMO!!!!!

[Athrun000]

I like this series... ^^
... i think the character is unique...! and i'm having high hope for this series... ^^

[Cloudninja92]

I just saw the raw of chapter 7 and from the looks of it theres a new evil douji coming and hes HUUGE

[Black Star]

I've already read the raws previously so it doesn't really bother me but some people haven't and so any information from them should be considered as spoilers. For the sake of those users who don't wish to be spoiled could please make sure to edit your previous post and any new posts with spoiler tags, when they involve information from unreleased chapters.

Here's the link showing how to use the tags: http://forum.onemanga.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#spoiler

Sticking with my thoughts about the evil doji being named after the seven deadly sins, I get the feeling this guy maybe gluttony but his master, the little girl, just doesn't seem to fit with this.

[pkingdom]

Could be sloth.

[Cloudninja92]

I'm thinking more of greed a little girl can be greedy so there's my thought and yes I think they're after the 7 sins

[pkingdom]

Is Stan Lee with Marvel? i can't remember. Marvel got bought by Disney today.

[Cloudninja92]

I'm not sure if he's still with them but yes he was with marvel

[pkingdom]

If he still is with marvel, then Disney owns another manga...

[Black Star]

I should have trusted myself more, but I can see where you were coming from Cloudninja92, I had the same thought and that's why the little girls presence threw me before.

Here's the link for the translation: http://mangahelpers.com/t/saitheshaman/releases/15693

Well seeing how we now know his name and that was the last of the raws for the moment, I might as well have a guess at what animal Edile's abilities will be centered around, just with how Jealous' are based upon a spider. At the moment I'm heavily favouring the idea that it will be bear due to his large size, the shape of his hands/claws and the relatively little symbol on his sash.

[Cloudninja92]

If he still is with marvel, then Disney owns another manga...

Actually they dont. Hes not distributing thrue marvel I think its going threw Shonen jump and viz so it has nothing to do with marvel


And looks like i was wrong his sin seemes to be Gluttony

[averruncus]

lune still looks like a girl...

anyhow the seven deadly sins... why would that big fat douji pick a small 5 year old girl...

[gilstocker]

lune still looks like a girl...

anyhow the seven deadly sins... why would that big fat douji pick a small 5 year old girl...

To the looks of it that girls might be highly princess type that wants every thing. But generally not so sure because greed might be involved on that kind of character. But still they said that the masters are reversed to what douji they they own. so it might be some thing like the opposite of gluttony. But just a guest maybe she doesn't eats her veggies. But not so sure though.

[Black Star]

Here's the download link for the chapter 8 raw: http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/details/51356

[Cloudninja92]

I cant seem to open the file. it just goes to open or save and it wont open.

[Kahraizee]

I think it's safe to assume all the Doujis will be male, it fits with the mangaka's m.o.......

And Yamato is too damn stupid, he should just stay out of the loop of everything technical. His fit with the "memory replacement" was very stupid and didn't sit well with me.

[pkingdom]

Actually, I thought it was really mature and surprising for him to immediatly disregard the "good" douji as not truly good.

And at least one douji is a girl. One of the good ones show was, at least I'm pretty sure.

[Black Star]

And at least one douji is a girl. One of the good ones show was, at least I'm pretty sure.

Currently none of the douji are female, either good or evil. I'm assuming your refering to Pardone, as it's almost impossible to confuse Regula for a girl, he does have some femine features but just as in the case of Ultimo and Jealous, it's stated through pronouns that he is in fact male.

At the moment, I've got to agree with Kahraizee. Takei does have a tendancy to feature strong women in his mangas but it's very rare that they take a prominent role in the fighting, not that this can't change especially as some of the remaining perfections and sins could easily fit a female douji.

[pkingdom]

Lust comes to mind.

[averruncus]

Lust comes to mind.

if its lust... then it could just be a PERVERTED male douji :D

[pkingdom]

Disturbing! Unnecessarily!

[Kahraizee]

Okay, I'll agree that Yamato knowing that the Good side isn't that good is commendable, I just forgot about that because he decided to actually lunge at a person he didn't agree with on, imo, isn't that serious. Mind tampering is an invasion of privacy, I agree, but do you really want people to know about robots destroying a block? Yamato wanted to lie about it too, I don't see the need to "lunge and attack" the person who did it. Yell at him? Sure.

On a side note, Regula's evil face is sorta unneeded huh? I was freaked out at him the whole scene! xD

[Black Star]

I don't see the need to "lunge and attack" the person who did it. Yell at him? Sure.

On a side note, Regula's evil face is sorta unneeded huh? I was freaked out at him the whole scene! xD

I think Yamato's reaction was perfectly measured when you consider his character, you have to remember that he's extremely protective, especially about those he holds dear (and he only attacks after considering the effects on these people).

This situation seems to me to pose the classic question of does the end really justify the means; yes maybe you do prevent mass panic and further conflict surrounding the doji but to do so you must violate a person in one of the most awful ways by altering something which is an essential and unique component of them, through invading something that should be completely private and personal, their memories.

We're not always going to agree on what's an appropriate response but it does demonstrate that everything isn't simply black and white. Even if it is for a good cause, that doesn't mean you can't stray towards potentially evil means to achieve it.

In this way Regula's evil face is also a necessity. As part of his perfection of morality, he feels compelled to uphold the law, which includes the commandments of the "good doji club" (one of which is not to kill, hence why Jealous was spared earlier and Ultimo was reprimanded). However, at what point does upholding the law become a fanatical ambition and so, can too much passion even when directed towards good become evil?

Sorry for the long rant and philosophical questions, but I'm glad this manga dares to challenge these deeper undertones within the main story.

[pkingdom]

This is a philosophical manga, so feel free to get philosophical.

The fact that he let made Ultimo let Jealous live annoys me. In Shaman King, the fact that they kept letting the bad guys live came back to bite them again and again, and it made me want to tear my hair out. That better not happen here!

[Cloudninja92]

Yea there whle were to good to kill our enemies thing was to crappy they were to optimistic.
And anyone have a link to the ch 8 raws

[Kahraizee]

@ Blackstar

Regula's face does demonstrate the Good isn't so "good", it also made me think about his passion/zeal for "the law". Actually, isn't it weird that his powers even includes memory tampering? I don't see the practicality in HIM having that power, except maybe because he's so strict that he is the least likely to abuse that power. But after seeing Ultimo flip out of his character, I don't know if Regula might make wrong decisions.

Back on Ultimo (and I guess all doujis), what makes them what their names call them? Ultimo seems like extreme good but then we saw him in merciless kill-mode. Pardone is supposed to be patient and forgiving but he didn't seem willing to deal with Yamato (not that I blame him...). Conversely, we see some of the bad guys slipping into good, if only for a brief moment. Envy actually asked Yamato if he would teach him right from wrong. He quickly withdrew from his own offer though, probably out of his own insecurity, and lashed out. It seemed Envy feared being on the good side.

and Pardone's "forgiveness"

[Black Star]

@ Kahraizee
The reason why Regula demonstrates this ability is due largely to the buddhist interpretation of "morality"; the first aspect of which is the protection of our body, speech and mind from performing unskillful deeds. By altering people's memories, Regula prevents the "unskillful deed" of revealing the secret of the doji, and so protects them from the subsequent harm that this could inflict.

In regards to the rest of the doji, remember that their masters role is not only to allow them to unlock their true abilities but to also guide them in discovering more about their particular virtue or sin. In this way all the doji are learning and so have the potential to make mistakes, just with how Ultimo nearly took it too far.

In terms of Pardone's attitude; forgiveness does not exactly equate to manners, just because you possess the capablity to forgive a person's deeds doesn't mean you have to like them, i'm assuming that's what has occured in this case.

The issue with Jealous has been discussed previously, Keiichi pointed out that 'since Jealous said "If you hold me back, I will kill you" that means he has no intention of conforming to the ways of good.' That doesn't completely rule out the idea of an evil doji displaying good characteristics but that wasn't what happened in this case.

@ Cloudninja92
Rena Chan's scans for the chapter 8 raw are up, meaning it can now be read online.

Here's the link: http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/51865/3

[Cloudninja92]

Thanks for the link. And the doujis seem a lot more complex than we think its not clear cut good and evil the limnes on both sides are blurry

Ultimo as a armor and being controlled from inside. A little power rangerish dont you think. and why is he naked he cant be whering his uniform whats with takei and nudity

[Black Star]

Everything seem's to be moving along a lot quicker this time, here's the link to the translation: http://mangahelpers.com/t/saitheshaman/releases/15922

I have to admit I found Ultimo's and Yamato's transformation rather cliche when I first saw it but after hearing that this was how the two originally fought in the 12th century, I guess it kind of makes sense as Yamato is a very hands on and impulsive type (remember how he took a swing at Vice during their first conflict).

However; I still get the feeling the progression that occured in this chapter was relatively rushed, not only could Ultimo have defeated Edile without God mode but I expected the revealation surrounding Lune to occur much later, that way the relationship between him and Yamato could be developed further and so creating a more meaningful division (although this could be dealt with when the two actually face each other).

The thing I really didn't like though was the statement of "everything is as the master commands", to me it just served to deminish the personality of the doji, at least in this instance but this was made up for due to the good masters reasoning, as I've always liked that sentiment yet it hasn't really been explored before.

[gatogirl12345]

I feel like the story is moving kinda slow and fast. Slow because how the chapters are, it seems like it could be cut down to at least 30 pages for this chapter. I feel like I'm reading a elongated Weekly Jump chapter. On the contrary, it's going fast because all the epic events are happening now and not later. We know of all these manga like to have everything on a thread for years.

@BlackStar and @Cloudninja
@Cloudninja - Also wondering about Takei and Nudity.

@Black Star - With the memory, it could have been cut a bit and I was predicting that Ultimo and Yamato would have been done with Hana and Edile already. (Not saying that it would have been 100% better if it was weekly.) However, I do think the armor form could have been pushed back a lot unless Ultimo has hundreds more abilities under his mechanical hand. However, the armor idea is kinda trite and I really would like to see more than just power ups. It's cool but right now the idea kinda bores me. I think at this odd rate, the manga will last only a few years unfortunately. (Unless something that defines epicness comes in.) I also agree with the big reveal with Lune. I knew it was coming from the chapter before but I thought it would have been cooler if it was revealed after all the other sins are revealed. By then, we could have learned more about the Lune that Yamato knows and then it would have been a bigger impact. However, I don't think Yamato knows yet...maybe the whole class but Lune could threatened them to keep silent and then that would be a cool move as well.

On the contrary, I think that quote and the quote from the shop keeper, 'if you depend on someone to tell you from right and wrong, you would just be a slave' or something like that from chapter 1 I believe.... will be kept on being played with.

And is this chapter this month's chapter? If so, that means we would have to wait for next month.

[Cloudninja92]

I like how this series is progressing its a lot like a comic book where they do stuff in arcs and unlike manga go strait to the point and dont linger on detail. Not saying that i dont like how manga puts detail in there back story but thats how im seeing this manga the way its scripted an executed. I like how its packed with info and maybe all this revelation is building to bigger events and were not use to seeing this kind of story in manga.

@ Black Star
I think the whole ultimate mode or whatever its called is kind of mundane. Its seems like a concept really played out. And doesnt this mode look like the spirit of rain from shaman king. I think there are better ways to show ultimos power. I dont think this should be one of them he could have shifted but not with yamato inside i think thats what bugs me that and the whole as you wish master thing. and lunes appearance makes it look like he is the real ideal master for jealousy.

[pkingdom]

The swan mark....the artist has a thing for swans. (see SK)

[gatogirl12345]

@cloudninja - I think it's early to say but perhaps it is like you say....in arcs. Either it's all Takei's doing or it seems like the duo have found a sort of balance. If this was at regular manga pace, the story would be finished quick I think since the pace is different. A lot of manga-kas like to dangle the end of the story in front of us and all these epic events are happening now instead. I hope there will be hundreds more cool events in the incoming years. :D
I'll let you know if I figure out about anything with Takei and the nudity. That's what I meant to say before. XD

And hehe, it does look like Lune IS the perfect master for Jealous on the last page! ;p (And I'm liking it! >:D)


@pkingdom What really got me was all symbols on Ultimo's armor. They looks like Sasuke's curse mark.

[Cloudninja92]

@gatogirl12345- thats the feeling i get form the way the writing style. Maybe hes trying to incorporate stand style into the manga so it really feels like a cross over.

Yea he seems to like to depict the hereos and theyre usually guys nude. so im getting a gay vibe from him hmm. Im not sure but did that swan mark spread over his body like sasukes. and It seems that when they make the vow its a long process and they gaine full power and that a person can do a vow in steps or maybe a normal person by the way hana acted. I wonder if the more pwerful the compatibility to the doujui the easier it is to vow thats what im getting from lunes confidence.

[Black Star]

Chapter 8 is this months chapter, so from now on it'll be around a month for each subsequent chapter releases.

@ gatogirl12345
I think what really damaged Ultimo's god mode for myself was that before hand he and Yamato clearly had the upper-hand in the battle, both Hana and Edile couldn't even react to one of Ultimo's simplest transformations, not to mention that it easily severed Edile's arm. I completely understand the necessity for power-ups within mangas, however, I agree with you that there should be more. Even when considering just power-ups; I prefer them to be invoked by a characters reaction to a specific situation that they are confronting, rather than them randomly occuring but this one was conducted before any such attack or other cause was made.

As of yet I don't believe either Takei or Stan Lee has fully grasped the potential of a monthly manga and the advantages of such a pace. While there are larger gaps that can serve to greatly seperate chapters, and enrage many fans while there at it, when done correctly they allow the writers to better explore the possible future progression, resulting in better and more involving story-lines for us the readers. I myself read Soul Eater and while it isn't for everyone, I couldn't see it working anywhere nearly as well if it were weekly.

@ Cloudninja92
I'm glad someone other than myself is noticing these similarities. If you haven't already, look at Jyuki Ningen Jumbor and compare the Jumbor to the Douji. You'll see that they both have freely transforming hands, controled by willpower, and the bolts in the Jumbor's heads have been with replaced with the eye guards we see on the current Douji.

I completely agree on the aspect surrounding Lune, I just wish more had been made of it as I really like very emotional divisions and confrontations, largely because the battles appear less forced due to the history existing between the two.

@ pkingdom
I understand where you developed the swan idea from and the reference to shaman king, but I believe that the mark is instead supposed to represent a crane, this is supported by numerous feature of Ultimo. For example his colours represent those of some crane species, his transformtions involve cranes and his sash also features the images of origami cranes.

This animal theming occurs with all the douji that have been displayed so far:
Vice - Minogame/Turtle (transformations and hexagons on clothes, like segments from a turtles shell)
Jealous - Spider (transformations and image on sash)
Pardone - Butterfly/Moth (images on sash)
Edile - Bear (transformations, image on sash and hands which feature paws)

[Cloudninja92]

Man its going to be a long month i enjoyed this series coming out weekly so i guess this will be like comics coming out monthly.

@Black Star
what similarities where we talking about? about the tie to other manga if so yea i see it he seems to base some of it on other already developed concepts and putting his own spin on them.
And I completely agree with the animal theme. And the fact that yamato pulled out what seems to be a high level teechnique on such a small foe. It seems to me like hes rushing to much he has a month make it a little more planned out so he doesnt crash and be left with a big cluster F**** of a mess he seems to want to finish in more simple strait forward ways with each chapter.

[pkingdom]

We can stop with the spoiler bits now. Everyone on this board has looked at the raws, and most of our comments don't spoil anything about the raws anyways.

Monthly's suck, but having big chapters is nice.

[gatogirl12345]

So chapter 8 IS this month's chapter...oh great...gotta get used to this. OK! Back to Bakuman!

@cloudninja + @blackstar - (We're talking about the same topic so I'm gonna talk to you two at once.) I wouldn't doubt that Takei is experimenting with the pace of the manga. I just hope it works as well. I also wouldn't be surprized on what blackstar said...inexperience of a monthly manga. Takei did SK which was a weekly so he needs to adjust to that. I think Stan Lee has experience with monthly but American comics are more done in teams. And there is a good chance that they will improve as time goes by. Although, Takei is doing most of the grunt work...so I'm aiming for Takei to improve more. Also I'm more of a weekly reader...although I don't do it that often, so there is also gonna be a point where I gotta get used to this pace as well.

@Cloudninja Maybe that's the case with him but honestly, I wouldn't know well cause he really just did Shaman King at it's been a while since I read Shaman King. And I forgot where I stopped as well. I think I have 100 more chapters though. Yeah, it looks like it would be a long process but considering UltimoxYamato and the way Hana reacted, he must have done it ridiculously fast. And I give LunexJealous around 40 hours max since he missed a day of school. Also compatibility like you said could as well be a factor. (I'm rereading chapter 4 and they weren't that compatible thinking of it. What the politician said, he was planning to collect them all and destroy them...and we figured that wasn't true anyways but if it was, that also meant to destroy Jealous too. And we know that he wanted Ultimo. Most likely if he did got him, he would have pushed Jealous aside. So, it was either the politician destroy Jealous or Jealous destroys him I think. How I see it, it looks like Lune will have a more mutual relationship with Jealous and hence, they are more of a match.) As for the curse mark looking symbol, it didn't spread like Sasuke's but it was like...Oh, look...that looks like Sasuke's curse mark! Oh, and there too! Oh, there it is again! And wow, another?

@blackstar Exactly. Like the Naruto powerups. Usually he can bring out the fox's power only when he's enraged some way or another. Even from the looks of it, Ultimo did barely anything before the powerup so in fact the powerup could have been pointless if Ultimo was able to win before then. I wonder if karma will bite them back for pulling out meaningless extra power or something. And I was like...already this powerup is happening? Give it some time....

@pkingdom I will keep it for now until it's released here.

[Cloudninja92]

welll im done with the @ since there really is only 4 of us in this thread sadly. so, naturally hes going to try to make this the, for lack of a better term, best of both worlds

I think that the whole compatibility thing is a big factor in this story the more compatible and I guess similar ways of thinking the stronger and mening that they can complete there vow easier and become more powerful team. As for the whole power up thing I think there should be some requirments for these things like and shouldnt be simaltanious it seems to easy and high level techniques shouldnt come so easy. And its at a bad time to do so. Really he needed this to take out a 5 year old master

[gatogirl12345]

There needs to be more sayings that just 'best of both worlds'

However, I do agree with you. Looks like compatibility will be a major factor. Also with the whole transformation, it was like 'ooohhhhh! There is a big fat marshmallowy KD! Since he's so big, let's evolve to get bigger too!' XD

[rosswald]

I have seen all of the chapters so far, but how many forms does vice have! I think the one seen is the same as the one from chapter two but he is damaged, the gian spear was absent though.

[Black Star]

I have seen all of the chapters so far, but how many forms does vice have! I think the one seen is the same as the one from chapter two but he is damaged, the giant spear was absent though.

I assume by forms that you are refering to transformations, if so, Vice currently has demonstrated 5 individual techniques (including those in the prologue chapter). The only two that are similar are Turtle-Headed Blade, from the prologue, and Turtle Saw, that features the large spear (sword) you are describing. Although they are similar the two are in fact different transformations and are made use of in entirely different ways.

Here's a link to Vice's page on the Ultimo wiki, which should provide you more details on each specific ability: http://ultimo.wikia.com/wiki/Vice

[Ruggia]

what are the odds that his remaining (girl) friends will end up joining the dark sides?

i mean usually, friends like that tends to join in the battle-world too, but seems like all major positions on "good" sides are taken.

[Jstar300]

Cool, the pace is starting to pick up now, thats really awesome. I hope this isn't really ultimo's best form. It just doesn't look that cool to me.

[pkingdom]

I thought it was pretty cool.

I don't think he'll stay with these "good" people. He doesn't like them, and immediately realized their faults in their own philosophy. Maybe form his own team of middle road-type people.

[Kahraizee]

All the characters have faults, but yeah, I wouldn't be hanging out with the "good douji club" either...

[Cloudninja92]

All the characters have faults, but yeah, I wouldn't be hanging out with the "good douji club" either...
Spealong of the goood douji club if you go back to chapter 2 page 36 you can see the business manager there. I never noticed this before

[gatogirl12345]

Spealong of the goood douji club if you go back to chapter 2 page 36 you can see the business manager there. I never noticed this before

Holy cow you're right. And I think that's K on the side and the friends. In SK, Takei was known to preview other characters long before their debut. There you go!

[rockstar72]

I thought it was pretty cool.

I don't think he'll stay with these "good" people. He doesn't like them, and immediately realized their faults in their own philosophy. Maybe form his own team of middle road-type people.

yea that would be cool
maybe jealous and them could team-up or something in the end

[gatogirl12345]

yea that would be cool
maybe jealous and them could team-up or something in the end
I don't think Jealous is a middle of the road type of character considering he's one of the seven sins as well as his personality. Lune...maybe but since he's a master of Jealous, I think it will be really hard. However, if a third club forms using something like feelings as a theme or some theme that would be right in the middle (or rather, a theme with not a clear cut side), it would probably better for Yamato. However, I think this story will focus not just the KDs but the masters and the fact that no human is perfect.

[Zia]

I gotta admit, I was a little surprised that Lune became Jealous's master...he just never really struck me as "that" kind of person... i though he came across as a caring faithful kind of friend, and it just seemed that he turned bad rather quickly to me

[gatogirl12345]

I gotta admit, I was a little surprised that Lune became Jealous's master...he just never really struck me as "that" kind of person... i though he came across as a caring faithful kind of friend, and it just seemed that he turned bad rather quickly to me

Chapter 7 clues weren't subtle to me but I agree. I think it was a bit too fast for all of us. I would have liked to learn about Lune a bit more beforehand...or at least a short memory scene of what happened to Lune right after meeting Jealous.

[Zia]

well, we might still find out what happened between them that it came to be this way (hopefully)

[Kahraizee]

He seemed a little jealous towards Ultimo...

[Zia]

you mean like when Yamato chose to fix Ultimo instead of go to school with him?

[Kahraizee]

Actually more like this page
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000620/000209792/011.jpg

[Zia]

ah, yeah...he does look (at least) really hurt in that page

[Keiichi]

Don't judge a book by its cover. Unless that book is Yamato.

[gatogirl12345]

He seemed a little jealous towards Ultimo...

you mean like when Yamato chose to fix Ultimo instead of go to school with him?

I kinda see that as well and I have been rereading those parts...I kinda figured clues would be in this section but since we just met Lune, it's hard to determine a bit but I could agree with those parts being a clue.

[Kahraizee]

Well... the story so far hasn't had the greatest of character development.... Lune appears to be the one with the most yet we don't know anything about him. Chapter 9 will probably clue us in.

But in the 8 chapters that we've read, we only got information on the Doujis when the masters are more important, imo. The masters are what determine the actions of the Doujis because they were designed that way, they aren't like Pinocchio where he was independent most of the time. They need contact with a human so that their full potential can be realized... Pinocchio didn't necessarily need his conscious or his father, but with them he made better choices on the good and bad in the world. Ultimo is bound to Yamato and can't make decisions by himself (well he CAN, but that's not what he's supposed to do).

Oh well, I'm not really sure where I was going with that but I hope next chapter gives us info on Lune's character.

[gatogirl12345]

Actually more like this page
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000620/000209792/011.jpg

Yup. I think Lune...the way Ultimo was speaking...thought that Ultimo was a friend that Yamato never mentioned...hence what Yamato says after that...so that I would see it as the biggest clue right now...and the page where Yamato wanted to fix him and said it to Lune. I'm thinking, you have a new friend, eh? Then I'll have my own!!!

Well... the story so far hasn't had the greatest of character development.... Lune appears to be the one with the most yet we don't know anything about him. Chapter 9 will probably clue us in.

But in the 8 chapters that we've read, we only got information on the Doujis when the masters are more important, imo. The masters are what determine the actions of the Doujis because they were designed that way, they aren't like Pinocchio where he was independent most of the time. They need contact with a human so that their full potential can be realized... Pinocchio didn't necessarily need his conscious or his father, but with them he made better choices on the good and bad in the world. Ultimo is bound to Yamato and can't make decisions by himself (well he CAN, but that's not what he's supposed to do).

Oh well, I'm not really sure where I was going with that but I hope next chapter gives us info on Lune's character.

I wouldn't just blame character development yet either since it is so early in the story until I check the other chapters as well.

It's interesting but no matter how the way they were made, they still seem to be individuals. After all, they can ignore orders and give themselves freedom (with consequences) by killing off masters. (thanks to learning more about Jealous.)

I see what you mean but just to make it clear...Pinocchio did need a conscience to reach his dream. (After all, the book was to order kids to behave so even though he was a puppet, he was a model of a bad kid...and in the Disney version...a innocent boy.)

[Cloudninja92]

Fox Mouth (Ko Guchi): This transformation involves Vice converting his left arm into a shape that is reminscient of a mechnical depiction of a Fox's head. The head itself features a gaping jaw but instead of teeth only sharpened edges are present, resulting in the technique seemingly functioning more like scissors. However, it's true potential has yet to be seen, as the ability was easily seen through and stopped by Ultimo.
Anyone clue me in when this technique was ever used.

[Zia]

i wonder if bad douji can have a good master, and vise versa....

[Black Star]

Fox Mouth (Ko Guchi): This transformation involves Vice converting his left arm into a shape that is reminscient of a mechnical depiction of a Fox's head. The head itself features a gaping jaw but instead of teeth only sharpened edges are present, resulting in the technique seemingly functioning more like scissors. However, it's true potential has yet to be seen, as the ability was easily seen through and stopped by Ultimo.
Anyone clue me in when this technique was ever used.

It was used in Chapter 1 (http://www.onemanga.com/ULTIMO/1/45/) after Vice's Demon Mask transformation was defeated, however, Ultimo sees through the attack so not much of its capabilities are known. It's good to see that someone here is reading my work on the wiki.

[Cloudninja92]

Yea went threw 6 chapters and couldn't find it

[gilstocker]

Lune enemy or a friend? Well doesn't matter anyway. Envy is neither good or evil for a emotion

[Zia]

maybe, but Jealous is one of the bad douji

[gatogirl12345]

Lune enemy or a friend? Well doesn't matter anyway. Envy is neither good or evil for a emotion

Envy is a sin. But now, looks like Lune will be an enemy.

[Cloudninja92]

Lune enemy or a friend? Well doesn't matter anyway. Envy is neither good or evil for a emotion

Envy is an evil douji just like regula is a good douji. Anyway Lune is in that cattegory of characters where they want power and have lost there sense of friendship and such and is in the future will come back from the darks side. just you wait and see id put money on it.

[gilstocker]

Well let's hope that i'm right.

[gatogirl12345]

Envy is an evil douji just like regula is a good douji. Anyway Lune is in that category of characters where they want power and have lost there sense of friendship and such and is in the future will come back from the dark side. just you wait and see id put money on it.

I would also agree on that. After all, we all know what Jealous said when he first found Lune... past, present, and future. I do think Lune will be on the other side for now on. (And the vow I think is for life unless there is a way to take it back besides killing the Master to break it...not like the Sinner Douji and Vice would use that option.) And considering after finishing Hana and Edile, Yamato and Ultimo are leaving to go off to get Dunstan with the Perfects and their Masters so who knows when he'll find out about Lune and Jealous. In the meantime, Lune could terrorize the school as long as a good douji's master (not saying a Perfect's master) is not in school. O_o

(Oh great, now I'm thinking about Liar Game....)

[Bankai4tailluffy]

WHERES THE NEW CHAPTER!?!??!?!?!?!

[gatogirl12345]

WHERES THE NEW CHAPTER!?!??!?!?!?!

Like your name...nice way to put the top three in one. :D

But sorry, dude. It's in a monthly manga...chapters comes out the 4th of every month with Shounen Jump SQ.

[Bankai4tailluffy]

Like your name...nice way to put the top three in one. :D

But sorry, dude. It's in a monthly manga...chapters comes out the 4th of every month with Shounen Jump SQ.

thnx :D

really? i thought it was weekly...thnx anyways:lol:

[gatogirl12345]

thnx :D

really? i thought it was weekly...thnx anyways:lol:

Nope...monthly. It was weekly when the scanlators were catching up.

I wanna read the next chapter.

[gilstocker]

Envy is an evil douji just like regula is a good douji. Anyway Lune is in that cattegory of characters where they want power and have lost there sense of friendship and such and is in the future will come back from the darks side. just you wait and see id put money on it.
well it is but still repentance is present to any souls rigt? that is when it will cahnge.

[gatogirl12345]

well it is but still repentance is present to any souls rigt? that is when it will cahnge.

I wouldn't count on change. After all, the evil douji are suppose to represent their sins and faults so change for the KDs won't be willing. However, I believe Lee did say that Vice isn't as pure either but wouln't comment further. It goes back to the question...what is good and what is evil? This story I believe will explore the grey area constantly.

[Lainemaa]

New thread: http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?p=2525491