[Item] DEVIL FRUITS (Types)

[Sigil_the_Great]

Original thread title = "DF Types: Strengths and Weaknesses." Changed into an official discussion thread.

Which do you think is better: Logia, Zoan, or Paramecia?

Here's my opinion:

Logia:
Pros: Tremendous fighting potential as well as natual invincibility. Everyone has difficulty fighting a trained Logia-type. Weakpoint not always obvious. Usually shown as the strongest of the three.
Cons: Faith in invincibility is often all they have. They are usually lacking in endurance or stamina. Logia-types almost always seem to have over-inflated egos (Aokiji aside). Logia versus Logia usually results in tie.

Zoan:
Pros: Greatest close range combat potential. Three forms have a multitude of uses. Easily combined with different combat styles. Can improve with scientific or medical research.
Cons: Combat ability almost exlcusively limited to close range. Tactics become obvious after a short while. Limited long-term potential in terms of growth. Difficult to see a Zoan beating a Logia.

Paramecia:
Pros: Often have the most unusual and unique abilities. Great surprise attack value. Immensely powerful if properly trained. Abilities often exceed initial expectations.
Cons: Without proper training and experience, Paramecia-types are one-trick-ponies. Abilities often leave the user vulnerable to attack. Difficult to master. Some abilities not always obvious to user.

[takachi]

i tihnk its logia........... it was always know logia is a hax fruit.............. just peep this:
enels's bounty would be 500.000.000 beri............ ****ing 5 hundred million beri............ that'd be the highest bounty known........... but he doesn't live on earth.......... and rly, who besides luffy could beat him??

[Spade]

Definitely Logia. I think Enel could even beat up Rob Lucchi with ease. Luffy just beat him because of his rubber-advantage.

[Sigil_the_Great]

I think the series might lose some of its luster if all the strongest enemies are always Logia-types. Perhaps in the New World there could be those who are able to attack Logia-types effectively, without having to find some sort of weak point or seastone. At least, that's what I hope.

Also, don't forget seastone seems to be equally effective against all types of DF-users.

[Lutyo]

Logia always has a weakness since they're an element right?

[Useless]

yea....logia fruits have weaknesses...but they are the best fruits...i believe its stated somewhere in the manga.....
paramecium are the worst since in some cases nothing will change....like in brooks case...i mean he'd get a second life...but you wouldn't know that until you died and you don't just try that every day....

[Spade]

Zoans can also be pretty useless. What if another person that does not have those CP9 skills ate the Giraffe fruit? Or what if a human ate Chopper's Human fruit? I'm sure there's a pretty useless fish-fruit out there as well.

[takachi]

see it always concludes to logia>>>>>>>>>> other
and i dont see a logia get stopped that easily by a paramecia or zoan............

[XIII]

Logia!
But if their weakness have been known, they can be beaten easily by the other types!
like Crocodile and Enel!

[takachi]

Logia!
But if their weakness have been known, they can be beaten easily by the other types!
like Crocodile and Enel!

no definately not easy............ knowing a weakness is one thing, being able to do something is a second........... enels weakness is so obvious...... but if you dont have a rubber body there is not much you can do against it..........

crocodile still is hax, he easily took on nico robin, and his weakness was water right?? which i dont really get since he can absorb it........... but i dont know if he can absorb blood, i do think so since its a liquid substance........ luffy just completely owned him cuz luffy's a D.

[XIII]

Okayokay, They can be hit easily by the other types, right?

[takachi]

yeah i believe so, depending on their type, but blackbeard is the ultimate hax among all DF's............

but if its(for example): ace vs. ao kiji............. i think it comes down to the one who can create the most of his ability............ fire/ice

[zxc17zxc]

i have been thinking...Logia type is Fruit that change the whole body right??like fire and ice...than the Paramecia type just change the body a bit, like buggy's power that make his body fly away from each other...than really...is luffy's gomo-gomo no mi really a Paramecia type?? cause it made him rubber..every thing like what the Logia type does changing every thing about him...and i choose Logia type

[Raiden]

no the gomo-gomo fruit is no natur power so it isnt a logia type. But you are right, Logia are the strongest until they fight their weakness like if Aokji would fight Ace, Ace would absolutely win.
But paramecia can also be very strong like luffys and alvidas fruit which are very usefull paramecia fruits.
And I think the Zoan type are very usefull only if a fishman would ate a fish fruit or a human the human fruit but w/e, but probably they are the weakest fruits

[takachi]

no the gomo-gomo fruit is no natur power so it isnt a logia type. But you are right, Logia are the strongest until they fight their weakness like if Aokji would fight Ace, Ace would absolutely win.
But paramecia can also be very strong like luffys and alvidas fruit which are very usefull paramecia fruits.
And I think the Zoan type are very usefull only if a fishman would ate a fish fruit or a human the human fruit but w/e, but probably they are the weakest fruits

eeeehhmmm.......... are you saying ace would beat ao kiji??? O_o ........... cuz you dont have any evidence of that and for one, ao kiji obliterated a whole island............

i believe his ice is strong enough to hold back ace's fire for a while.......... if they would fight frequently (like shanks & mihawk) i think they will usually result into tie...........

im not saying that if you have your DF longer than the other you necisarily are stronger, but ao kiji has his DF for 20(+ ?) years...... so im pretty confident he is a great fighter...........

and i believe it was also stated he was one of the strongest marines of the grande line, or of the 3 admirals........... not sure though.......

[Spade]

Ace definitely has an advatage over Ao Kiji but I doubt he'll be able to beat him. He'll have a higher resistance against the ice but it won't be enough.

[takachi]

i reckon the advantage, though its a very small one, the amounts of ice aokiji can create are immense.......... and ice is a solid substance, whereas fire is not, and if ace is entrapped in aokiji's ice........ there is not much ace can do, since fire needs air........

and if ace melts aokiji's ice, it becomes water which is disadvantageous for ace.......... well he can just evaporate it, but he wont gain anything from it..............

i still wonder what the limit for a logia user is, since they dont have to use a lot of stamina..........

[TsunayoshiSawada]

a good ol' fashion sea stone thingy. for me i think it the user of the DF. Lucci being a zoan DF user was on par with luffy a paramecia DF user. if Ace was against Ao kiji, i think it will be who can over come who as in who melts who or who freezes who. all Ace has to do it burn/ melt Ao kiji's ice and evaporate it into bit's of H2O. Ao kiji's ice may be solid but Ao kigi can disappear while Ace turns into a fire went he can 'go out' if frozed. A natrual power will always have an Natrual enemy. I find Buggy the clown haveing a crappy DF power.. he has so many disadvantages and so little advantages.

[takachi]

a good ol' fashion sea stone thingy. for me i think it the user of the DF. Lucci being a zoan DF user was on par with luffy a paramecia DF user. if Ace was against Ao kiji, i think it will be who can over come who as in who melts who or who freezes who. all Ace has to do it burn/ melt Ao kiji's ice and evaporate it into bit's of H2O. Ao kiji's ice may be solid but Ao kigi can disappear while Ace turns into a fire went he can 'go out' if frozed. A natrual power will always have an Natrual enemy. I find Buggy the clown haveing a crappy DF power.. he has so many disadvantages and so little advantages.

1 ace melts ao kiji's ice
2 he evaporates it into H2O

H2O is water........ he evaporates water into water??? O_o
ace's natural enemy is water......... not ice


buggy is more a character for comical relief (like OP wasn't filled with it already xD)

[Captaingod]

I find Buggy the clown haveing a crappy DF power.. he has so many disadvantages and so little advantages.

I'm not so sure, I think if buggy trained his power he could split into more pieces, just as Luffy can stretch longer nowadays. I think Buggys power could be great with some training.

[Spade]

Sure. One day he might split himself intop such small pieces that he can enter his enemies' bodies and attack their inner organs. Noone can beat that.

[TsunayoshiSawada]

woah i never thought about that! great thinking. what happens if he spilt his head into cubes and someone shot it? =O.. H2O has oxygen and why not give ace the power to use the oxygen from that and leave the hydrogen for later?

[Raiden]

1 ace melts ao kiji's ice
2 he evaporates it into H2O

H2O is water........ he evaporates water into water??? O_o
ace's natural enemy is water......... not ice


buggy is more a character for comical relief (like OP wasn't filled with it already xD)

uhm I think he meant into H2 and
ace's natural enemy is water you are right but Ao kiji's natural enemy is fire^^

[Captaingod]

The Zoantypes should get more variation, all of them are pretty much the same except for the falcon fruit. A spider fruit could be pretty nice.

[Ussop]

lizard lizard fruit, model dragon would be unique.

[Fang]

Sure. One day he might split himself intop such small pieces that he can enter his enemies' bodies and attack their inner organs. Noone can beat that.

Except Enel. He's invunerable to everything except rubber. The only person I could see beating him is Luffy.

[Ussop]

And any Logia users for that matter.

[Spade]

Not any Logia user, Blackbeard is an exeption. He said himself that he does not have this "unable of being hit" h4x... uh, ability. :eban:

[Ussop]

But still buggy can't beat him even if he is in a billion small parts. Ubless he becomes Hawking particles :)

[Fang]

And any Logia users for that matter.


Not true. There are ways to beat other Logia users. Ace hasn't been shown to have the ability to make his whole body flame and even if he did you could hinder him by pouring a large amount of water on him. Crocodile was beaten the same way by Luffy and he is also a logia user. You could use the same technique on Aoki but you would have to use fire. The only person who seems pretty unbeatable (with the exception of Luffy) is Enel.

[err]

lol smoker can probably beat enel with his sea stone stick sword thing and enel pretty much can't hit smoker. xD
come to think of it, what's teh weakness of smoke anyway? wind? D:

[TheBatosai]

yeah i think wind would be the weakness of smoke, but Idk I never really Liked Enel, he was much to into himself and he deserved to get owned by luffy...and as for Logia users i think they must have a weakness that hasnt been shown yet, it makes sense because then Smoker would be a much Higher rank in the Marines.....and wouldnt have to answer to very many people......but then again it makes since that there isnt since Akoji can basically do what he wants...i think its because everyone is scared of him..

[Useless]

logia fruits don't make you automatically strong....
you need to develop a certain skill with your fruit
like how crocodile developed his to the point where he could absorb the moisture in your skin, not just made a sandstorm

[TheBatosai]

That Makes Sense....but not in Smokers case, I mean he has to be quite fully developed to become an even Match with Ace.......even if there fruits nullify eachother if Ace was stronger than he would Own Smoker...but yeah I think Smoker is underated by far.....

[takachi]

lol smoker can probably beat enel with his sea stone stick sword thing and enel pretty much can't hit smoker. xD
come to think of it, what's teh weakness of smoke anyway? wind? D:

i dont think so, lightning goes faster than smoke, plus enel has his own staff, and i think if he uses that to block smokers attacks (yes he can with his mantra) he can pretty much nullify the use of that....

logia fruits don't make you automatically strong....
you need to develop a certain skill with your fruit
like how crocodile developed his to the point where he could absorb the moisture in your skin, not just made a sandstorm

and crocodile trained his body to the point he could have his DF ability always intact, so if someone sneaks up to him and shoots him, it'd go through, cuz he's sand....

That Makes Sense....but not in Smokers case, I mean he has to be quite fully developed to become an even Match with Ace.......even if there fruits nullify eachother if Ace was stronger than he would Own Smoker...but yeah I think Smoker is underated by far.....

Ace is a beast, which you gotta admit to, he is a D. to begin with, and then he went armwrestling with luffy, and tied:eek: with luffy!!

i dont think ace is as much cocky as he is aware...
and i think he is smarter than luffy, even in battlemode...

[TheBatosai]

Lol almost EVERYONE is smarter than Luffy in battle.......Luffy just goes balls out without really thinking too much (he has his moments, but they are few and far between) ex. Running up the Beanstalk with a giant ball of metal and falling about a hundred times......

[takachi]

Lol almost EVERYONE is smarter than Luffy in battle.......Luffy just goes balls out without really thinking too much (he has his moments, but they are few and far between) ex. Running up the Beanstalk with a giant ball of metal and falling about a hundred times......

what i meant was, luffy is a battle genius....... its just like that....... and he knows how to put his rubber body to good use.....
the only thing thats dangerous for him, is to fight people who use edged weapons... but he has zoro for that.......

[luciferhellblazer]

lol... I woundn't use luffy and genius in the same sentence unless they were separated by a "not"... its a given that he has his own luck but over all... he's jus dancing to his own tunes isn't he ?!







what i meant was, luffy is a battle genius....... its just like that....... and he knows how to put his rubber body to good use.....
the only thing thats dangerous for him, is to fight people who use edged weapons... but he has zoro for that.......

[takachi]

lol... I woundn't use luffy and genius in the same sentence unless they were separated by a "not"... its a given that he has his own luck but over all... he's jus dancing to his own tunes isn't he ?!

eeehhmm, well okay he isn't the smartest, but its rather his power, and battlesmartness that wins him fights:

crocodile: found the weakness
CP9 blueno: discovered how soru works
gears: he advanced his DF
enel: a regular person with the gomu gomu no mi, would have lost to him, cuz he had the shapeshifting staff + mantra, luffy found a way to defeat this....

there are prolly more, but idk them at the moment, if i did.... dont feel like typing

imo he IS a combat genius...:p

[Raiden]

also against Kuro it was a good idea to clasp him and yeah I think also luffy is a smart fighter and he hasnt luck, in OnePiece you have no luck in fights^^ You are weak or you are strong thats the fact :D
Luffy is an idiot when he not fight thats true but in a fight he is a real genius!

[Ussop]

Smoke is like 90% carbon dioxide right? So maybe if Luffy had to fight Smoker, he would use Soda Lime (absorbs CO2), just like how he fought Crocodile using water.

[Sigil_the_Great]

Here are a few interesting types:

Any insect-based Zoan types would be a good change of pace.
and how useful would an earth-type logia be on the open ocean?

[takachi]

Here are a few interesting types:

Any insect-based Zoan types would be a good change of pace.
and how useful would an earth-type logia be on the open ocean?

since the user can make earth from his body, still usefull.... and if its like ace's ability, and can create endlessly lots of it..... (which i think the user can) it doesnt matter where he/she is....

[tsunade666]

an earth type
well if he can create lots of soil to create a new island or land bridge from island to island it will be cool and ussop luffy using soda lime will not like him at all he fight brutally unless some incident occurs like when croc almost killed luffy and luffy notice that water hardends him maybe luffy will thought about using soda but still his not that kind of person to think like that

[Sigil_the_Great]

Actually, from what I can tell, Logia users don't generate their powers from nothing. Electricity, cold, and heat are all generated in the air normally, which is why some powers appear to spawn out of thin air. Think of Crocodile. Yes, he could turn into sand, but its not like he could create a desert out of nothing, which is part of the reason he was so intent on Alabasta. Sure, an earth-fruit user could turn himself into soil and rocks, but its not like he can just generate an island on his own.

[Captaingod]

I agree, maybe he can create some sand, but I doubt he can create an entire island.

[takachi]

Actually, from what I can tell, Logia users don't generate their powers from nothing. Electricity, cold, and heat are all generated in the air normally, which is why some powers appear to spawn out of thin air. Think of Crocodile. Yes, he could turn into sand, but its not like he could create a desert out of nothing, which is part of the reason he was so intent on Alabasta. Sure, an earth-fruit user could turn himself into soil and rocks, but its not like he can just generate an island on his own.

well actually, enel created a large amount outta nothing, and was able to hit citizens with huge bolts without having something that leads the electricity..... like water..... somker also created smoke outta nowhere, ao kiji could create ice....

ace, well he made a lot of fire, but its true the oxygen allowed im more..... about crocodile, we cant really know, since it was all desert....

what i dont get: mr 3 ???? he could create huge amounts of wax, but couldn't turn into it himself...... and it was stated he is a paramecia
O_o......

[Raiden]

yes it is a paramecia because he couldnt turn into it, its only Logia when you can turn into the element (also wax isnt really an element^^)

[takachi]

hmmmz, but i believe smoke isn't really an element either....... or is it O_o and since when does a logia HAS to be from an element?? O_o

[Ussop]

Well, Sand isn't an element either for that matter... Is the Bubble fruit logia?

[takachi]

Well, Sand isn't an element either for that matter... Is the Bubble fruit logia?

CP9 kalifa's?? she had the bubble right?? i beleev that was paramecia....

[Ussop]

If I'm not wrong, she did metamorph into this bubble sheep thingy which means that she can become bubble as well, so i'm not too sure bout that.

[Sigil_the_Great]

Maybe Logia means that a person can generate the element as well as transforms into the element. That would show that Kalifa and Mr. 3 are Paramecia, since they can only generate the element. The opposite goes for people such as Mr. 1 and Luffy, since their bodies are that element, but cannot generate it.

[Raiden]

uhm no she just made a lot of bubble which surounded her so it wasnt like that she turn her body into bubble

[Ussop]

Logia means that the person can control that element, and become one with that element. Since Luffy can't control rubber that, he is not logia. Since Enel can control electricity outside his body, he is logia.

[tsunade666]

logia and paramecia and also the the other one type?
how do they classify the fruit to begin with and all the fruit has its own weakness to begin with to contrast the power of the fruit
is it possible to possess to fruit the main fruit and the fruit that beats your weakness that makes you virtual invicible?

[Sigil_the_Great]

No one has explained how any of the DF's are classified, or why some aren't. It's a good question.

[zxc17zxc]

logia and paramecia and also the the other one type?
how do they classify the fruit to begin with and all the fruit has its own weakness to begin with to contrast the power of the fruit
is it possible to possess to fruit the main fruit and the fruit that beats your weakness that makes you virtual invicible?

they cant have two fruit cause they will die when they eat two fruit

[Captaingod]

they cant have two fruit cause they will die when they eat two fruit

Can you find a source to comfirm this?

And it makes me think iof the most useless fruit I've ever came up with:
Duo Duo Fruit, allows the user to use another fruit beside the Duo Duo Fruit.

[takachi]

Can you find a source to comfirm this?

And it makes me think iof the most useless fruit I've ever came up with:
Duo Duo Fruit, allows the user to use another fruit beside the Duo Duo Fruit.

uuuuuuhhmmm the manga maybe O_o CP9 explained this

and that would definatly be a useless fruit..... and the ability wont work: cuz the devil's of the fruits would fight, and result to explosion of the body.........

[Captaingod]

Must have forgotten that, but if these are all powers of the devil, the devil has the power to have all these powers there should be a power to have all the powers, since that is one of the devil's powers. Personally I don't think these are the powers of the devil tho.. :p

[Ussop]

Wow, the Devil can't swim, if that was the case. (hint: If the devil is chasing you, go dive under water, you'll be save.)

[tsunade666]

thats totally wierd MAX devil devil devil devil
then if I accidentaly bump one I need to jump to the water what if their is no lake or river will bathtub be sufficient?
:D :D :D

[Fang]

Wow, the Devil can't swim, if that was the case. (hint: If the devil is chasing you, go dive under water, you'll be save.)

Not if he went Enel on you. He wouldn't be able to get you but you would still be fried.

[Captaingod]

thats evil, a devilpower that is extemely effective against people in the open sea!

[Fang]

thats evil, a devilpower that is extemely effective against people in the open sea!


Thats why Enel owns all(everybody shown so far) except Luffy.

[tsunade666]

thats what I though about also enel thunder fruit according to robin is one of the strongest devil fruit its sure is devastating also with his boat making it unbeatable its so strong sure fit him god but his completly useless against luffy.
NO MATCH!

[takachi]

Thats why Enel owns all(everybody shown so far) except Luffy.

true........

thats what I though about also enel thunder fruit according to robin is one of the strongest devil fruit its sure is devastating also with his boat making it unbeatable its so strong sure fit him god but his completly useless against luffy.
NO MATCH!

enel would be one of the best pirates (if he was one, and came down to grande line)

theres a slight chance BB can beat him......... and that is VERY slight......
but enel's + is he can be gone in NO time...... but his - is...... he's too cocky.....

and he has every reason to be:
mantra
shapeshifting staff
imo best possible logia....

[tsunade666]

black beard will probably toast before he could capture enel to nullify his devil fruit power.
Toasted teach enel strenght is just to powerful and also he can travel to metal that makes him lightnigh fast.
Besides the speed of light is the fastest current speed I seen in one piece

[Captaingod]

But can't you beat enel, quite easy with a Seastone Lightning Conductor?

[Raiden]

We have seen that you cant beat enel with a seastone and I dont think also not with a Lightning Conductor

[err]

We have seen that you cant beat enel with a seastone

i'm pretty sure you can beat enel with a sea stone; wiper was just stupid and just stared at enel when he was trying to revive his heart. i mean he could've at least touched enel again with the seastone when he was reviving his heart, not just stare at him. D:
and maybe another reject on enel's head to be sure. xD

[takachi]

enel has mantra...... he see's that shiz coming..........

Enel=God

there is one only reason..... AND I MEAN ONE REASON!!!! he's not on earth......

see the matter of the fact is this:
nobody can beat Enel, after Oda-sama God-ed him like that.... and how can you NOT like a character as God, as Enel......

[err]

lol how can he use mantra when he's not even conscious? =o
all im saying is that wiper could've beaten enel with the sea stone, if he followed through his first reject instead of just staring at enel trying to revive himself.

[takachi]

lol how can he use mantra when he's not even conscious? =o
all im saying is that wiper could've beaten enel with the sea stone, if he followed through his first reject instead of just staring at enel trying to revive himself.

when was enel unconsious?? O_o

and if enel intends to, he can whipe out millions, AND MILLIONS!!
of wiper's are one time......

did wiper even had a seastone?? O_o which chapter did he show it in??

[err]

when was enel unconsious?? O_o
did wiper even had a seastone?? O_o which chapter did he show it in??

he was unconscious when wiper rejected teh crap out of him. he pretty much died but revived his heart using his df ability; kinda like using a defibrillator on himself. =o
wiper had a seastone in his skate shoes (forgot the actual name lol xD)
not really sure which chapter, i'm too lazy to look for it. D:

[takachi]

he was unconscious when wiper rejected teh crap out of him. he pretty much died but revived his heart using his df ability; kinda like using a defibrillator on himself. =o
wiper had a seastone in his skate shoes (forgot the actual name lol xD)
not really sure which chapter, i'm too lazy to look for it. D:

ahh, i remember ^_^ ........ its a suprise wiper didn't die from the impact O_o.......

ah, the shoes ^_^ i believe it was milky dial shoes?? meh, cant remember.....

God Enel is waaayyy to cocky ^_^

[tsunade666]

to cocky
so luffy kick his sorry but out of the way and knock the golden bell

[Ussop]

You guys got it all wrong. Enel is no God, the only gods are Oda and <insert random deity of choice>.

[takachi]

You guys got it all wrong. Enel is no God, the only gods are Oda and <insert random deity of choice>.

see you said it!!

Oda = God........ Created Enel = God!! ^_^

[Ussop]

see you said it!!

Oda = God........ Created Enel = God!! ^_^

I'm slow or something, are you agreeing with the general idea that Enel is a God, or the idea that the only true god in OP is Oda???

[tsunade666]

ODA is a god for creating the one piece and oda create ad god characte on his works one piece thats the god enel

gets?

[Ussop]

Oh well... Enel was such a n00b god anyway (no longer one, since that old man assumed that title....)

[tsunade666]

enel is strong as god and I think his one of the strongest. his definetly stronger than croc or lucci and even teach or other strong ones his lightning attack is just fatal his only natural enemy is luffy that what makes him a weak noob ( though I hate him for being god )

[Ussop]

It is not his strenght, but more of his governing techniques that are noobish. Think of it. You have the power to rule and make the people worship you as a god and saviour, but you still failed.

In any case, we digress a little too much. Back to topic.

What do you guys think is the weakness of Smoker?

[Captaingod]

That one is hard to tell.. Wind Fruit?

[takachi]

It is not his strenght, but more of his governing techniques that are noobish. Think of it. You have the power to rule and make the people worship you as a god and saviour, but you still failed.

In any case, we digress a little too much. Back to topic.

What do you guys think is the weakness of Smoker?

well obviously:
logia >>><<< logia
even if your fighting your elemental opponent, its the one who has best control over it wins......

for instance: ace vs. someone who has water logia DF, but is just a complete idiot in using his df, then >>>> phail
but idk about any other weakness.....

[Sigil_the_Great]

I always felt that at some point in the series someone, possibly a Straw Hat, would develop a technique to attack the "real body" of a Logia user. This probably won't happen until near the end of the series, since an invincible Logia always makes for a good enemy.

Also does anyone think a Logia user will ever join the crew? My vote is no, it probably won't happen.

[Darkreaper70]

i think there is no more good logia types lol they are all taken

[Raiden]

I think their are much left, for example: air/wind fruit, lavafruit(I know its almost the same like fire but a bit different), earth/stone fruit, lightfruit?, ironfruit (almost same like ironblade), and I think their are alot more

[tsunade666]

I agree with Raiden about their are more logia type fruit
and about smokers weakness its hard to pin point the weakness of smoke and about the greater control user increase the chance of winning thats only for logia and luffy fighting croc a paracemea against logia is hard knowing the weakness of the logia is really a good one to make the battle a lot easier

[Captaingod]

Yea Logias seems to have some weakness, all of them + the water/second DF weakness.

[tsunade666]

well back to the question that what could be the weakness of smoker's smoke smoke fruit?

and thats one cool sig pic the last page of the last chapter but who is the one in the middle its been edited

[Ussop]

Smoke is largely made up of Carbon dioxide gas right? What takes out Carbon Dioxide would defeat Smoker then. So I think Smoker's weakness is Soda Lime. -Usopp, the chemist

[Captaingod]

I've allways imagined he actually is made of steam, since it's supposed to be an element(water), but then it should be called steamfruit.. Can't smoke be alot of different gases? :S

[Ussop]

Yeap, that's why I said "largely", which means major constituent of smoke is carbon dioxide (i.e. large percentage of smoke being carbon dioxide). This is difference from saying that smoke is made up of carbon dioxide, which means it (smoke) is completely made up of carbon dioxide

[tsunade666]

but the enemy of smoker is luffy not ussop unless luffy thinks of it for himself or he got help with ussop it sure hard to crack smoke

[Ussop]

He got help from Sanji against Gesparda (albeit it was in the movie, but still...). Why can't he get help from me?

[tsunade666]

yes that was from movie 4 well I don't know hmmm how to put this I just want luffy to fight smoker and accidentally find it for himself like croc when he almost got killed in yuba

[Ussop]

But, why would Luffy be carrying Soda lime with him anyway?

[tsunade666]

well that's one of my point I didn't even seen a soda in the anime to begin with his not carrying it and nobodies carrying it oda didn't even draw soda well that only from my memory but if you can find one drawing of a drink label soda then maybe its possible

[Ussop]

Er, Soda lime as in the chemical. It is lethal to the human body, so don't drink it, kids.- Ussop's disclaimer

[Captaingod]

Soda Lime is gay and that's the only known reason not to drink it!

[Ussop]

From the wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_lime
Soda lime is a mixture of chemicals, used in granular form in closed breathing environments, such as general anaesthesia, submarines, rebreathers and recompression chambers, to remove carbon dioxide from breathing gases to prevent CO2 retention and carbon dioxide poisoning.

It is made by slaking quicklime with concentrated caustic soda solution.

[Mibu Kyoshiro]

Logia.too bad no mizu mizu no mi user.All else just turn and consume all

[tsunade666]

Ussop thats kinda chemistry isn't it?
to complicated for them like I said before theres got to be another way for luffy to counter smoke

[Sigil_the_Great]

Besides, Luffy would probably try to eat the soda lime, so it wouldn't be a viable solution for him. Character like Ussop, Franky, or Robin might be able to use it.

Come to think of it, wouldn't Franky's Coup de Vent be highly effective against Smoker?

[tsunade666]

yes I would agree about that well luffy tries to go berserk and beat the enemy up than think of that unless something happen like when he discovered croc's weakness

[Ussop]

Maybe Smoker jumps on the ship, attacks the Mugiwaras, and crashed into Usopp's lab (where he makes all his weapons etc.)?

[tsunade666]

hmmm
now that you mention in we haven't seen your room in the thousand sunny
I wish its not a mad scientist look its kinda creepy

[Sigil_the_Great]

Why do I think that Ussop's room would have a huge banner in it?

[tsunade666]

banner :::

saying

warning warning

8000 soldier guards approching

warning warning

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Ussop]

Just keep guessing, keep guessing. :devil:

[tsunade666]

hahahahaha

your a devil ussop give a hint! :devil: :devil:

[Captaingod]

There's probably a cannon made of rainbows! And fairies and trolls and magical flowers ofc.

[tsunade666]

that need a tons of space inside sunny if their will be magical creature inside

[Ussop]

Wait a second, you guys think that I have a fairy tale themed room? I guess its time to drop you guys some hints, before it gets any worse...

Nope! Better luck next time!

[tsunade666]

I think we are getting of topic now so it must good if we create another thread

[Sigil_the_Great]

Back to the original topic: Does anyone think that aside from seastone, there is some way for anyone to face a Logia type on even grounds without exploiting some generic weakness?

[Raiden]

maybe some paramecia types can invent techniques to face them but it would be realy rare and I dont know maybe their is only the way of the seastone and opposite element

[tsunade666]

yes
I can't think of anything beside that the logia type are narute strongest their power exceeds the paracmeia and zoan types they are naturally invisible normal attacks that aren't opposite to their elements usually just past through the body of a logia type up till now ODA shows fights that only the opposite element or exposing one's weakness is the best way to fight a logia type
and another thing what type is moria's using its a shadow shadow fruit right? what type is it? is it logia? what could be its weakness and what would be the secret weapon the zombies are talking to defeat moria's fruit?

[Raiden]

morias fruit is a paramecia, he can steel and control shadows but cant change in a shadow so it is paramecia, but we will see how strong this fruit really is until now it isnt something special but I think their will come something really badass

[tsunade666]

its a bad *** ability when moria is controlling oz
oz body stretch like luffy its totally awesome

[Sigil_the_Great]

I think Oz's stretching is because of some combination of internal machinery added by Moria, as well as Moria's shadow-controlling ability. Perhaps he entered Oz not only to protect himself, but so he could directly influence Oz's shadow, like his Doppleman.

Oz being able to stretch really does make him a terrifying foe, doesn't it?

[tsunade666]

yes he is terrifying
its like fighting a enlarge and strengthen type of luffy SCARY MAX!
kind of contraption that moria use to stretch I doubt it but the part that its
connected to his ability of shadow shadow fruit believable cause its his ability and
we haven't even clearly see its powers yet other than creating a shadow clone
and getting others shadow

[Sleepy Magus]

Paramecia! Logias are overrated and Zoan's just make me Laugh =)
You never know what your gonna get with a paramecia,can get anything from a simple fruit that lets you talk to animals to a fruit that lets control shadows

[Captaingod]

I'd guess that all Logias have weaknesses apart from the sea.
Sand - Water
Ice - Heat
Fire - Water
Electricity - Thunder
Darkness - Light/Emptyness? :S
Smoke - Wind?
Wind - ?

and maybe there is magma, light, poison(maybe overpowered as logia), mud, stone..

[Ussop]

Except, I don't really see Pison as an element, perhaps carbon monoxide or Sulphur dioxide would make more sense as an element.

[Raiden]

I'd guess that all Logias have weaknesses apart from the sea.
Sand - Water
Ice - Heat
Fire - Water
Electricity - Thunder
Darkness - Light/Emptyness? :S
Smoke - Wind?
Wind - ?

and maybe there is magma, light, poison(maybe overpowered as logia), mud, stone..

the weakness of Electricity is Thunder? I dont get this. The weakness of Electricity is Rubber^^ and of wind I would say Stone or Steel (something that can stand against wind), but of wind is really difficult to say, because stone and steel couldnt hurt wind. maybe the weakness would be a vacuum fruit, so you can creat everywhere a vacuum. where no air is their cant be wind!^^

[Captaingod]

I meant rubber.. haha :P

A vacuum fruit would own though

[Captaingod]

Except, I don't really see Pison as an element, perhaps carbon monoxide or Sulphur dioxide would make more sense as an element.

Carbon Monxide no mi? not gonna happen. Poison might not be an element, but you could conjure it, become it and control it so that would make it a logia(am I wrong?). I think it would make one of the deadliest fruits ever. Poison gas, spores or liquid searing through your airways would be extremely lethal. But I'd make it a paramecia myself.

[Tank]

I really think its Paramecia.
I bet that for every single "invincible" Logia type there is an Paramecia that can ignore or be immune to his powers. luffy vs enel and i bet there's more

[Useless]

thats not true. Logia's are weak to elements that would hurt them. Paramecia just give their users a strange body shape/type. Buggy just separates his body. That wouldn't hurt an element.

[tsunade666]

luffy is just lucky his made of rubber.the natural enemy of logia would be the opposite element.

[UchihaMadara]

Devil fruits are overrated you can easily pwn DF user with a seastone and a knife.
Just stab him in the heart.

[Ussop]

Thats if you get to touch them. Might be easy for some Zoan and Paramecia, but against most Logia and some paramecia users that can "transmute" their body into elements, you probably get thrashed first.

[tsunade666]

DF are strong and I think no strong pirate will just get pawned by a sea stone.
strong ones know their weakness best!

[Hopeless]

but take this also in consideration... 2 of the yukons are not DF users... what if their weapons are actually seastone?? wouldn't that put them in par or rather above DF users??

[Ussop]

We don't know if WB is or isn't a DF user actually. Some DF users (like BB and Lucci) only use their DF at the last moment.

[Zodiark]

1 thing I know is that Whitebeard has a way to handle logia, otherwise Ace would have been the captain.

[tsunade666]

well thats true...maybe his huge spear has a sea stone as a blade part so when it pierce through a DF user its power will not take effect and it will be cut through.
and maybe he has a DF also just like smoker that use sea stone based weapon but DF users themselves.

[Heretic]

A good paramecia fruit would be, a fruit that allows you to become immaterial and pass through solid objects.
Not only could you steal whatever you want, be immune to physical attacks, you could finish off oppenents by grabbing thier hearts and taking them out.

[tsunade666]

meaning like a soul body fruit.
but every DF has its weakness and whats that weakness.
the good thing about DF is ODA makes them have a opposite
or a weakness meaning they are not GODLIKE unlike the other
manga making their charater GODLIKE.

[Sigil_the_Great]

You are thinking to literally. Think of characters from other series, or American comics, who have had that power, and yet can still breath. When characters are given unusual powers, they aren't bounded by all physical limitations. If Luffy followed that kind of logic, he'd die from overheating, since rubber doesn't sweat. Powers aren't literal, just creative design used for effect.

[Heretic]

I know but what weakness would it have? That was only put there to add weakness to it.

[Mibu Kyoshiro]

how about atom fruit. atom make up the universe so with atom Df, you can change and destroy the universe

[tsunade666]

thats like gods fruit or a fruit like a god can wield or have.
basically you want to be god :D :D :D :D
no offense :D :D :D :D

[allen1122]

Definetly Logia

[tsunade666]

what do you mean definitely logia?
you need to name a fruit like fire or magma or heat fruit..

[Mibu Kyoshiro]

what do you mean definitely logia?
you need to name a fruit like fire or magma or heat fruit..

I think he meant as long it is a logia fruit he is fine with it

[tsunade666]

Okay but I think paracmeia is still the best for me.
Logia users tend to depend to much on their fruit but paracmeia or zoan type user.
Their fruit power just increase their strength like luffy increasing the range and power.

[acent]

i would prefer logia type of fruit. maybe smoker logia ability. i don't see his weakness except when it against blackbeard DF ability.

[Sagaru-san]

i would prefer logia type of fruit. maybe smoker logia ability. i don't see his weakness except when it against blackbeard DF ability.

What about a fan? I mean the one that blows air ;D

I'd propably take some paramecia

[luffy26]

i would like a paramecia or logia maybe a water logia or a rubber paramecia

[acent]

hm.... i can make solid smoke.
but .... fan.... i don't how you gonna hurt people with fan

[tsunade666]

If its a paracmecia type I would prefer luffy's ability its awesome but other tends to underestimate him. Ending them half beaten down.

[ninja ace 14]

smoke wouldnt do to great in wind as was shown by dragon in lougetown

[acent]

yea i agree, but its only help them to escape :D

[tsunade666]

Well if the battle will be dragon and smoker...
I will put my bet on dragon.

[methaniel]

I'm wondering for the discuss of where does this fruit comes from, if there is double, ect... Sanji said he read a book where a lot of DF are explained (as for Teach who know the one he was seeking). How can such a description exist if someone already eat it? Does that mean once the user died or after a long time, the fruit is create again?

[acent]

i read in some thread before. once the DF user died, the fruit be exist again in... 50 years. if i'm not wrong, and that's also prob just people assumption. pretty much make sense to me.

[methaniel]

It would make sense, but I never see anything like this in the manga. Did Oda said this in a SBS or during a meeting? We still never saw someone find a DF in the see, I guess they float and a boat catch them (come Doc Vegapunk for explain us!)

[ninja ace 14]

yes oda said that in an sbs

[tsunade666]

Said what? that after 50 years when a DF user die a new fruit will be born???
or the fruit is just floating in the sea and boats bump into them just pick them?

[ninja ace 14]

my bad wasnt thinking. he said that a fruit grows again every 50 years

[acent]

it's not clear where the DF is grown up. there are many DF user in grandline, perhaps its only grow up in grandline.

[tsunade666]

of course it only grows in the grandline.

[methaniel]

Yes, there is a lot of chance that it grows on Grand Line (that would explain why there is so much DF user there compare to the normal seas), but nothing is really state on this

[tsunade666]

Well grandline is connected by all blue then all blue connected to 4 seas in the world.
But their is still no incident that their is a DF found outside the grandline..
Thats why grandline was scary.. not because of its unpredictable climate because its
roaming with DF users.

[darkninja27]

I wonder if there is an island filled with DF or where do they originate from... I mean we have never seen anyone find a fruit in the manga on a journey and show it to us. Whenever we hear of a DF, its either:

1. eaten
2. being experimented with
3. being talked abt
4. Being stolen from an enemy ship

But the manga has never shown anyone just finding a DF on an island or something.

[acent]

yea, it's never mention where the origin of DF.
and DF fruit can be fake as well, remember what buggy did.

[tsunade666]

I similar looking fruit. But the DF has a different aura surrounding it. Jus like kaku did mention when his about to eat the fruit. And the DF fruit has all kinds of different shapes and different lines on it.

[acent]

the fruit similar to normal fruit but the color is different from the normal fruit and yes.
it got some weird lines all over the fruit skin. never notice if it emits some aura but possible since devil lives in it.

[tsunade666]

And also I think strong ones are the only one can detect it because if luffy did find it strange back then he wouldn't even lay his hands on it.

[coldleaf]

Luffy is too young to notice the force, hes probly just thinking of food...:D

[tsunade666]

yap and also I think his in still in training so his weak.
And his even beat up back then resulting of shanks saving him.

[methaniel]

Luffy was still young so he may not notice that the fruit was strange, and furthermore, he ate it for makes Shanks angry of mocking him (by "stealing" his treasure)

[tsunade666]

hehehe
he is just nuts. Like buggy hiding the fruit inside his mouth. :D :D
And kaku and kalifa are just to careful and shock. And to put it all their
senses are strong so maybe thats the reason they sense it.

[methaniel]

I forgot about the most supid way of eating a DF...hiding it in his mouth...Well, Buggy is as stupid as Luffy so... But I'm realising, Buggy have a good throat for eating this in one blow!

[djrock007]

I think Logia, because no one can possibly beat Marshall D. Teach's(Blackbeard's) darkness. But I think Luffy will pwn all of them.

[sena-kun21]

I wonder if there is an island filled with DF or where do they originate from... I mean we have never seen anyone find a fruit in the manga on a journey and show it to us. Whenever we hear of a DF, its either:

1. eaten
2. being experimented with
3. being talked abt
4. Being stolen from an enemy ship

But the manga has never shown anyone just finding a DF on an island or something.

You forget about Dr V. He wrote a book on the different types of DFs. I'm sure that he must know where this so called island may be...since he had to study it. Especially experimenting of infusing DFs with inanimate objects. He must had a lot of those lying around to come up successful. Then there's that scene with Spandam (whatever his name) who gave Kaku and Kalifa DFs as a reward. Seems to me that WG may be hoarding it somewhere.


I think Logia, because no one can possibly beat Marshall D. Teach's(Blackbeard's) darkness. But I think Luffy will pwn all of them.

Well, Luffy still have to come up with some way to defeat them. He doesn't do well against Logia types. Of course, he beat Croc but took him 3 trys to finally pwn him. Anyway, Luffy does have ingenuity on his side. When fighting against these L types, he watches and comes up with a counterattack.

[ruztan]

What about chopper making a surgery to place sea stones in luffys hands? kick *** stuff.

[sena-kun21]

But wouldn't it defeat the purpose...?? Luffy's body will feel the effects of the seastones power since he's in contact of it.

[Monkey D Luffy]

What about chopper making a surgery to place sea stones in luffys hands? kick *** stuff.

That's what you called SUICIDE

[Agung]

If I remember correctly, the manga said that DFs have actual devils that give the people the powers. You think by getting stronger, the devil gets stronger as well?

BB stated that his fruit was the most evil of them all. I wonder why?

[Monkey D Luffy]

If I remember correctly, the manga said that DFs have actual devils that give the people the powers. You think by getting stronger, the devil gets stronger as well?

BB stated that his fruit was the most evil of them all. I wonder why?

LOL Blueno said that's not true, it was just a theory from Jyabura.
I think BB said that his DF is the most evil because darkness = evil.

[sena-kun21]

Ok...hopefully nobody mentioned this here and I'm not repeating it. But how about one having a mirror mirror DF...?? Not only can it reflect back but it has the Medusa effect...turn anybody or anything to statue like while the DF user has time to initiate an attack.

[Sigil_the_Great]

That would be an impressive application of a DF power, and I have heard of weirder applications too. It's like how Kalifa could wash away strength with hers; perhaps a mirror DF user could do something like that.

You bring up an interesting point: Perhaps some other DF users we have seen will soon learn to use their powers in more interesting and intricate ways; like how Robin came make four giant functioning arms out of normal-sized ones.

Any theories on how Luffy could use his Rubber abilities in unexpected ways?

[Useless]

Isn't Gear 2nd/3rd a weird way?
I mean...inflating his bones and whatever the explanation for gear 2nd happened to be seems pretty strange.
Chopper's weird thing is his rumble ball, but thats not really his DF power. I'd like to see something else strange from the Zoan types....They seem really limited.

[sena-kun21]

Chopper's weird thing is his rumble ball, but thats not really his DF power. I'd like to see something else strange from the Zoan types....They seem really limited.

Yeah...the rumble ball is an enhancer to Chopper's DF power. But here's a thought...what if Chopper can develop telekinesis after having overdose with the rumble ball?? Not that he pops in three all at once in which he reached his monster point. I meant after a period of time...that this telekinesis came to fruition because of the usage of it. Then later...doesn't need the rumble ball since his body has gotten use to it.

[Sigil_the_Great]

Telekinesis wouldn't be too far off. Oda did say that if a human ate the Human DF they would gain enlightenment, so why can't Chopper gain some mental abilities? He already enhances his perceptual abilities to use his Scope, so he could gain a higher state of mind soon.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Okay, thread has reached the post limit and all discussion needs to be moved to a new thread. Continue on over here (http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?t=7982).